Tom, when I said people stopped studding IT I mean people in college.
My friend himself was an IT Student, but decides to go to an management school after he realized companies in the US are sending their IT programming to other countries. I don't think it's only money, IT companies have no choice as senior programmers start quitting work and there is nobody to put in their places. That's the circle. Sorry to say it was a xenophobic problem, but that sounds like it was. I agree that a large number of the firms here (again I don't know India) gets first-year college students to put in positions where it was needed to put a senior programmer, and that is why we're cheaper, at least at first sight. After a while, as this student gets experience programs will be better, but that will only happens when the contractor has invested so much money that he doesn't want to came back and start all over again. But it's to late. So the problem is not the programmer himself, but the companies that hire interns to do senior jobs. It's all about money! Regards, Ricardo. On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Pinnacle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ricardo, > > My responses below. > > Regards, > Tom Conley > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ricardo Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main > Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 1:43 PM > Subject: Re: Outsourcing dilemma or debacle, you decide... > > >> So, >> >> you really think that, if one is not north american, a US citzen, then >> he/she has less skills?? >> > > I'm limiting my discussion to offshoring firms, about 99.99% of which are > based in India. Systems Programming cannot be taught in a classroom. For > every ounce of knowledge, you need a pound of experience. But people with > those pounds of experience don't charge $5-10/hr. They charge more like > $75-125/hr, or more. IBM's standard bill rate for systems programming in > the US is upwards of $250/hr, but their skills matrix puts a maximum of > about $60 in the system programmer's pocket. IBM here is becoming our worst > enemy. They decry the lack of mainframe skills on the one hand, then their > puchasing department drives people out of the marketplace with their > ridiculous skill matrix pricing. > > I'm not sure of the standard of living in Brazil, but I'd bet that sysprogs > there make more than $5-10/hr. > >> I think of it as a xenophobic problem. >> > > I'm not xenophobic. I am perturbed with the fiction that $10/hr talent with > no experience and a special H1B visa provides better value. > >> Actually, I realy think that, because of all the problems we have here >> in Brazil, where I live (I can't comment about India, as I don't know) >> such as lack of formal training or base education, we learned to study >> by ourselves and for what I see here people are very competent. >> >> I have been there in the US and talk to a friend of mine who lives >> there see that the problem there is a bad circle: companies start to >> out source because people stop studing IT, and people stop studing IT >> because of the outsourcing. >> > > People didn't stop studying IT, their management stopped encouraging their > education. Companies have cut back on training, college tuition > reimbursements, etc. Pressure to do the day to day job leaves no time to > try something new. God help you if you try something new and it goes wrong. > So most fulltime employees stick to what they know. That keeps them > employed and keeps food on the table. > >> I am not saying that we are better... I just want to say that it's >> different. >> >> Ricardo. >> >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
