> To be fair, the old-mainframer remark you took to be condescending, I took to > be aimed at himself. What I don't understand is his leading argument about > why Python is better.
I understand... However, if these are the kind of implementations that the big vendors are going to champion as WokeZ, then truly Z is going to be irrelevant soon. As an example of how to do new development, look at Rocket doing SDSF & SDSFAUX. Fits in seamlessly with the regular SDSF, and doesn't go mad with CPU/resources. Other good examples... I don't know. People across orgs definitely have the capability to make Z a good back-end for modern tooling. Needs to be infused in the OS itself for it to really work well. Alas, hooking into core OS functionality is where they perceive the problem is (the maintenance of such code). So, Metal C or other low-and-high-level languages need to save the day by moving bits out of ASM/PL1 into simple PARMLIB control or GraphQL like API endpoints. Not entirely convinced by zOSMF's APIs... just can't quite accept it as a light-weight, performant API gateway. Don't know how much of the above makes sense, please do correct me if it doesn't. - KB ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Thursday, August 19th, 2021 at 1:11 AM, Bob Bridges <[email protected]> wrote: > To be fair, the old-mainframer remark you took to be condescending, I took to > be aimed at himself. What I don't understand is his leading argument about > why Python is better. > > The simplicity of JCL is based on the fact that JCL is just code that we > manage. The > > code itself is not complex, but it can be intricate. > > I'm not sure what this means. Yes, JCL is code that we manage. So is all > code, including Python, right? And how is something "not complex, but > intricate"? I suppose he means something but I don't know what. > > Most of us bring up a JCL member, modify a couple of items, and submit the > job. If > > you make a mistake, you go over to the System Display and Search Facility > (SDSF) and > > look at the output, figure out the error, go back to the editor, change the > code, > > and submit again. > > The Python code is based on a totally different model. Reviewing the output, > > figuring out the error and modifying the JCL code steps are unnecessary in > Python > > because the user never touches the code. Instead, the code verifies the data > > supplied to it and performs the functions. > > So to fix JCL I have to figure out the error, then correct it and submit > again. Whereas in Python, by contrast...how is Python different from that? I > really can't tell what he's saying here, possibly because I don't know > anything about Python, but he seems to be saying Python never needs to be > debugged and corrected, which I cannot credit. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Bob Bridges, [email protected], cell 336 382-7313 > > /* Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub > together. Often the very young, the untraveled, the naive, the > unsophisticated deplore these formalities as empty, meaningless or dishonest > and scorn to use them. No matter how pure their motives, they thereby throw > sand into machinery that doesn't work too well at best. -Lazarus Long */ > > -----Original Message----- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [email protected] On Behalf Of > kekronbekron > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 23:59 > > Objectively, this has got to be madness. > > Just look at the JCL that's being shoved into a horrid, horrid Python program. > > ~200 lines to replace 18 lines of JCL. > > Oh.. and that's leaving aside the condescending tone about 'the old > mainframer'. > > Whether a person wants to learn something or not (therefore choosing their > path) is up to them. > > They don't need to be harassed/shamed about it. > > Just because there were some people on mainframe forums consistently > harassing everyone with "check with your site's system programmer / RTFM / > etc.", it doesn't mean the woke folk need to return the favour by being > passive aggressive or insulting senior sysprogs for not wearing neon shorts > or whatever. > > If this is being paraded as simplification, now the mainframe is truly doomed. > > https://medium.com/theropod/the-journey-from-jcl-to-python-so-easy-even-an-old-mainframer-can-do-it-f088cc49366a > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
