If zosmf is the answer what the hell was the question? On Wed, May 24, 2023, 12:16 PM Colin Paice <[email protected]> wrote:
> For one IBM PP, they had a zosmf process for customising. It made the > trivial bits easier, and ignored the hard bits eg setting up SMS and RACF > definitions. Once configured I could not see how to change the > configuration. For setting up second instance you had to start from the > beginning. > > If z/osmf is the answer perhaps the configuration could have > novice/intermediate/ expert. For novice it should hide standard defaults > and show what you MUST configure. For expert it shows all options. Help > displays novice > / Intermediate / expert levels as well > Colin > > On Wed, May 24, 2023, 18:52 Shaffer, Terri < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Completely agree with the overhead and complicatedness! > > > > You know what's sad, is when I started in mainframes 39 years ago, The > old > > IBM SE sat with me gave me the basics, etc and said go for it on a test > > system. And you learned actually what each process did. I have seen even > > today system programmers that are clueless, all they were told was follow > > steps 1 thru 10, and if it fails in step x, they have no clue what to do. > > This is the problem with z/OSMF and especially the new software instance > > install BS, its trying to make it idiot proof, but everyones SMS, > volumes, > > catalogs, etc are all different and it doesn't work, or not easily. > > > > Us old timers, are the only ones that really understand z/OS, could build > > a system from scratch, understand NIP, NET, JES2 and how everything works > > together. I have worked at 7 different companies in my 39 years and > > maintenance was pretty much always done the same way. Build the jobs > once, > > change Volsers, zones, etc and submit. > > > > No GUI clicky BS, processor intensive, certificate ridden process, that's > > removed from the actual LPAR. And when z/OSMF doesn't work, then deer in > > headlights start to occur! > > > > Ms Terri E Shaffer > > Senior Systems Engineer, > > z/OS Support: > > ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter > > H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592) > > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf > > Of Pommier, Rex > > Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 10:53 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: zOSMF > > > > EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click links or open attachments unless you know > the > > content is safe. > > > > > > Hi Rob and Terri, > > > > I'll weigh in here from the opposite end of the spectrum. From my POV, > > z/OSMF is nothing but overhead for us. We have a very small system. 2 > > LPARs, no sysplex, nothing difficult about it. We build a new OS on one > of > > them and clone it to the other and we're done. All z/OSMF is going to do > > for us is add complexity to a simple system. And I agree with Terri and > > Barbara that the next gen of sysprog won't have a clue where to go > looking > > when z/OSMF breaks. > > > > Rex > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf > > Of Rob Schramm > > Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 9:18 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: zOSMF > > > > See you are missing the point. > > > > If you have 117 lpars, of course you going to work on making the process > > actually work. Because every minute you save in that process is worth 2 > > hours. The point is is that for each institution that's done that > there's a > > bunch that haven't or they've got some jammed together process that > breaks > > every single time that somebody new touches it. And it's not > standardized > > then it's not maintained and it's poorly documented and it's... you > know... > > ad infinitum ad nauseam. So for you ... I agree it's probably more of a > > pain in the neck. And there will probably be some sort of compromise > > eventually. But for all the people that have these other processes, I > > think the standardization that is going to come from this will ultimately > > make this a lot easier. And the dealing with the myriad of ISP software > and > > IBM non server pack software or stuff that could be on the server pack > but > > doesn't actually belong there... This should help immeasurably so once > > again I will disagree with your disagreement. > > > > Rob > > > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2023, 20:12 Shaffer, Terri < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > When I worked at Chase bank, We had 117 LPARS and maintenance/clone > > > was a > > > 30 minute task. So adding z/OSMF was never even brought up as a > > > consideration. > > > > > > So while I understand the direction IBM is headed, its adding LOTS of > > > layers to something that sound not be hard. Running thru screens vs > > > submitting a canned job, is hours vs minutes. > > > > > > As much as I love my job and starting with MVS 1.3.8 to now z/OS 2.5 > > > and even OS/390, they have added a layer of complexity that eliminated > > > the KISS principle, sadly. > > > > > > So I have to disagree.......... > > > > > > Ms Terri E Shaffer > > > Senior Systems Engineer, > > > z/OS Support: > > > ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter > > > H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592) > > > [email protected] > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On > > > Behalf Of Rob Schramm > > > Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 4:27 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: zOSMF > > > > > > EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click links or open attachments unless you know > > > the content is safe. > > > > > > > > > I think the promise of zosmf is far beyond just a server pack > > replacement. > > > Yeah server pack was great for what it was but when it comes to the > > > grind of installing over and over and over again and the customization > > > the workflow features I believe really hold the promise to fixing what > > > is a continuously pain in the butt situation. And hopefully they'll > > > continue to make it lighter and lighter. But the other part is the > > > distribution points and the packaging for distribution. Yeah I don't > > > really care how it happens whether it's a GUI or not. But in my view > > > this is steps in the right direction. > > > > > > I would point you to Ed's presentation on the workflow features that > > > were incorporated to E/JES2 installation. I really think there's > > something here. > > > > > > Just my two cents. > > > > > > Rob Schramm > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2023, 12:06 Michael Babcock <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > I agree. We use a permanent maintenance LPAR which is generally not > > up. > > > > With ServerPac, it didn't matter we could select it as the target > > > > from > > > our > > > > driving system. With z/OSMF, if run on the driving system, z/OSMF > > > wanted > > > > the target up and wanted to communicate with it via z/OSMF. Not > > > > good for us. > > > > > > > > Further, PSWI uses DSS to restore the datasets and ignores any > > > > DATACLAS parameters. Our OMVS datasets are all EXTADDR so we had to > > > > build a REXX EXEC to copy the OMVS datasets to a newly allocated > > > > OMVS > > > dataset with the > > > > EXTADDR attribute. Which by the way, what happens when the ROOT > grows > > > > beyond 4GB? > > > > > > > > There were a number of other things we ran into which escape me at > > > > the moment. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 10:15 AM Shaffer, Terri < > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Randy, > > > > > I completely agree, This will be my 40th year working on z/OS > > > > > and at least another 7 years to go. > > > > > > > > > > I find z/OSMF cumbersome. I prefer to do things close to the > source. > > > > Not > > > > > a tool to add layers of complexity and places to go wrong with yet > > > > > more strange messages. > > > > > > > > > > I installed z/OS 2.5 before they eliminated SERVERPAC. I then > > > > > ordered it again to try it thru z/OSMF, it added a lot more time, > > > > > the SSA's, my SMS ACS routines and how things got built added to > > > > > the complexity. Plus > > > > there > > > > > are many times I would bypass steps in serverpac, that because > > > > > z/OSMF is performing what they call checks, think idiot proofing, > > > > > makes this even more difficult. > > > > > > > > > > More to come, but if I find work arounds, I will bypass in the > > > > > future > > > > what > > > > > I can in z/OSMF software installs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ms Terri E Shaffer > > > > > Senior Systems Engineer, > > > > > z/OS Support: > > > > > ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter > > > > > H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592) > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On > > > > > Behalf Of Harris Randy - Nashville > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 3, 2023 9:03 AM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: zOSMF > > > > > > > > > > EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click links or open attachments unless you > > > > > know > > > > the > > > > > content is safe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure my complaints don't do any good, but I've been doing this > > > > > for 25 years (I know many of you a lot longer). > > > > > I don't understand why IBM wants to force everyone to use z/OSMF. > > > > > Maybe it's an attempt to attract a younger group of System > > Programmers. > > > > > That's fine. However, I am not a GUI fan. I like the green screen. > > > > > Serverpac works great. I am running into issues trying to learn > > z/OSMF. > > > > > It's a waste of my time when I already know how to use Serverpac. > > > > > > > > > > Randy Harris > > > > > P 615-344-3244 > > > > > C 662-401-8552 > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On > > > > > Behalf Of rpinion865 > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2023 9:37 AM > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: {EXTERNAL} zOSMF > > > > > > > > > > CAUTION! This email originated from outside of our organization. > > > > > DO NOT CLICK links or open attachments unless you recognize the > > > > > sender and know the content is safe. > > > > > > > > > > Running zOSMF under z/OS 2.4. In attempting to load the Portable > > > > > Software Instance, retrieving the contents from the directory, > > > > > that was used when the order was retrieved to our system, I get > > > > > the > > > following error. > > > > > > > > > > An error was found in file "/u/pinionr/TDMF/IZUD00DF.json". Error: > > > > > "The file contains data that is not supported by the current level > > > > > of > > > z/OSMF. > > > > > The version = 8."IZUD277E Feb 16, 2023, 10:14:02 AM > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea how to proceed. 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