The real problem, as I see it, is that drag and drop interfaces move you away from the need to know what you are doing. A long time ago, the first MVS install that I did on my own, took me a few months to do it. I was doing it under VM/XA and I did a few complete back to square one at the time, as I was not pressed for time. At the time I had about two years of MVS experience. I did read a lot of MVS and JES2 reading, you know, installation guides, references, customization and such. When I finnaly was satisfied with the system I knew a lot more than when I started. The point that I am trying to make is that you may be able to do a z/OS install using zosmf knowing next to nothing of z/OS, but with that knowledge you will not be able to debug any kind of problem that you will get in your way. So, I suppose that the next step will be some kind of IA doing the install and problem solving. That makes me glad that I am not so far away from retirement. Jack
On Wed, May 24, 2023, 21:21 Seymour J Metz <[email protected]> wrote: > I enjoy learning new things, but I'd rather not replace good tools with > bad just because the bad tools are in fashion. > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> on behalf > of Harris Randy - Nashville <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 4:17 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: zOSMF > > I had a choice 30 years ago to go into the pc, server, network side of IT > or go the mainframe direction. > I chose the mainframe because I liked it better. > I'm not a GUI fan. > It's not Windows. > I do have grey hair. > I do understand the need to atract younger people to the mainframe. > What I don't understand is why IBM would take away a working method > (SERVERPAC) and force > those of us with grey to learn something new when we well know how to use > what we already have in place. > And, a lot of us looking at retirement not toooo far away. > > Randy Harris > P 615-344-3244 > C 662-401-8552 > [email protected] > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf > Of Phil Smith III > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 1:58 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: {EXTERNAL} Re: Re: zOSMF > > CAUTION! This email originated from outside of our organization. DO NOT > CLICK links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know > the content is safe. > > Beverly Caldwell wrote: > >If zosmf is the answer what the hell was the question? > > I’m going to take that as a straight question. I assume the question was, > “How do we make z/OS easier to install and maintain for folks who don’t > have any grey hair yet?” > > This is essentially the same question that led to GUIs in general. The > problem is that it’s not trivial to answer—putting some lipstick on the pig > doesn’t always do it: sometimes you need to restructure the pig. > <possibly insert “waste of time and it annoys the pig” joke> > > > I’m reminded of the Windows version of the Relay/Gold terminal emulator, > which was acquired by VM Systems Group when I was there. Under certain SDLC > error conditions, it would drop out of the Windows UI into a DOS error > dialog. Which was not really recoverable, since it needed someone to press > a key. At one point a customer was considering buying a power strip that > plugged into a phone line and could be called to cause it to power cycle, > as they had an automated process that would be stopped when this error > occurred. Talk about a Rube Goldberg solution! I’m sure the real fix was a > single line of code somewhere, but finding that was non-trivial, of course. > Especially since Relay/Gold was written in x86 assembler, a non-standard > variant from a dead company. So there were no diagnostic tools to speak of. > And as a tiny vendor, we didn’t have the hardware to even simulate the > error…Good times. /s > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email > to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
