Hi,Just some few words..:I hate zosmf and zowe... :)And yes... I have some good applications running on CUI... No plans to migrate... :)Dan
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sunday, May 28, 2023, 8:26 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote: The problem is not the D&D interface; the Devil is in the details. The real issue is the design, and what IBM has chosen to hide, rather than CLI vs panels vs GUI. It is perfectly possible to write a program with a scriptable GUI; anybody remember SOM, DSOM and WPS. A GUI is a good servant but a poor master, and even with a GUI it is easy to provide visibility to things that you have automated. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Jack Zukt [jzuk...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 5:31 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: zOSMF The real problem, as I see it, is that drag and drop interfaces move you away from the need to know what you are doing. A long time ago, the first MVS install that I did on my own, took me a few months to do it. I was doing it under VM/XA and I did a few complete back to square one at the time, as I was not pressed for time. At the time I had about two years of MVS experience. I did read a lot of MVS and JES2 reading, you know, installation guides, references, customization and such. When I finnaly was satisfied with the system I knew a lot more than when I started. The point that I am trying to make is that you may be able to do a z/OS install using zosmf knowing next to nothing of z/OS, but with that knowledge you will not be able to debug any kind of problem that you will get in your way. So, I suppose that the next step will be some kind of IA doing the install and problem solving. That makes me glad that I am not so far away from retirement. Jack On Wed, May 24, 2023, 21:21 Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote: > I enjoy learning new things, but I'd rather not replace good tools with > bad just because the bad tools are in fashion. > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf > of Harris Randy - Nashville <james.harr...@hcahealthcare.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 4:17 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: zOSMF > > I had a choice 30 years ago to go into the pc, server, network side of IT > or go the mainframe direction. > I chose the mainframe because I liked it better. > I'm not a GUI fan. > It's not Windows. > I do have grey hair. > I do understand the need to atract younger people to the mainframe. > What I don't understand is why IBM would take away a working method > (SERVERPAC) and force > those of us with grey to learn something new when we well know how to use > what we already have in place. > And, a lot of us looking at retirement not toooo far away. > > Randy Harris > P 615-344-3244 > C 662-401-8552 > james.harr...@hcahealthcare.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf > Of Phil Smith III > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2023 1:58 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: {EXTERNAL} Re: Re: zOSMF > > CAUTION! This email originated from outside of our organization. DO NOT > CLICK links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know > the content is safe. > > Beverly Caldwell wrote: > >If zosmf is the answer what the hell was the question? > > I’m going to take that as a straight question. I assume the question was, > “How do we make z/OS easier to install and maintain for folks who don’t > have any grey hair yet?” > > This is essentially the same question that led to GUIs in general. The > problem is that it’s not trivial to answer—putting some lipstick on the pig > doesn’t always do it: sometimes you need to restructure the pig. > <possibly insert “waste of time and it annoys the pig” joke> > > > I’m reminded of the Windows version of the Relay/Gold terminal emulator, > which was acquired by VM Systems Group when I was there. Under certain SDLC > error conditions, it would drop out of the Windows UI into a DOS error > dialog. Which was not really recoverable, since it needed someone to press > a key. At one point a customer was considering buying a power strip that > plugged into a phone line and could be called to cause it to power cycle, > as they had an automated process that would be stopped when this error > occurred. Talk about a Rube Goldberg solution! I’m sure the real fix was a > single line of code somewhere, but finding that was non-trivial, of course. > Especially since Relay/Gold was written in x86 assembler, a non-standard > variant from a dead company. So there were no diagnostic tools to speak of. > And as a tiny vendor, we didn’t have the hardware to even simulate the > error…Good times. /s > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
