Hi David, This is the part I was commenting on. " Then came VSAM (and VVDS?) and VSAM Catalogs,...". I took that comment as being Dave guessing that possibly the VVDS came along with VSAM catalogs which I believe were a stepping stone between CVOLs and ICF catalogs. I never worked with either CVOLs or VSAM catalogs but I was pretty sure the VVDS came along with the ICF.
Rex -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of David Spiegel Sent: Friday, May 24, 2024 8:55 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs Hi Rex, "...Followed by SMS and VVDS for non-VSAM datasets ..." This was meant (AFAIK) to state that VVDS for Non-VSAMs came into use with SMS-Controlled DASD Volumes. It is also true that VVDSs were introduced with ICF Catalogs (circa 1981, recalled and re-released in 1982). Regards, David On 2024-05-24 09:44, Pommier, Rex wrote: > Didn't the VVDS come along with the ICF catalog structure? > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List<IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On > Behalf Of Gibney, Dave > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 10:32 PM > To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs > > All speculation on my part. One system with no DASD, you need neither. > On a system with only one, of just a few DASD volumes, a VTOC is required to > say where on the volume a dataset is and the basic attributes of PS and PDS > datasets. > > Once you get to several always mounted DASSD volumes, it becomes a pain to > need to remember and specify VOLSER in the JCL. > > CVOLs where an early attempt to solve this problem. Then came VSAM > (and VVDS?) and VSAM Catalogs, and somewhile later ECf/Catalogs. > Followed by SMS and VVDS for non-VSAM datasets > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List<IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On >> Behalf Of Mike Schwab >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 8:24 PM >> To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs >> >> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >> >> For the most part the catalog lets you locate your dataset no matter >> which volume you put it on. >> For non-vsam, that is about all that is stored, dataset >> characteristics are in the VTOC. >> And with non-SMS volumes you can have uncataloged datasets on DASD or >> tape. >> >> VSAM came from the Future Systems development as a complete >> replacement, Lynn Wheeler has posts about that. >> It was cut back to be an addition to MVS, then combined with CVOL >> catalogs to ICF. >> >> On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 9:32 PM Phil Smith III<li...@akphs.com> wrote: >>> I'm curious whether any of you old-timers can explain why we have >>> both VTOCs and catalogs. I'm guessing it comes down to (a) VTOCs >>> came first and catalogs were added to solve some problem (what?) >>> and/or (b) catalogs >> were added to save some I/O and/or memory, back when a bit of those >> mattered. But I'd like to understand. Anyone? >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO >>> IBM-MAIN >> >> >> -- >> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA >> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO >> IBM-MAIN > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email tolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from > disclosure and may be legally privileged. 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