> Generally these outsourcing services are not sold as "we can charge you less > because we hire ill trained young Indians to replace your experienced > technical people"! They are more likely to be sold using a combination of > "wages for well trained technical people in India are much lower than they > are in US/Canada/UK/etc." and "your experienced technical people are overpaid > prima donnas who deserve some pain", both of which arguments probably appeal > to some extent to the C-suite crowd who are not themselves likely to face > being outsourced any time soon.
I concur. All I'm saying is - it's not right to point the finger at us professionals who are already left trying to fit in the shoes of technical experts. But it's always the case that "the company" is fed up with the technical people and not at management for selling them on something that's less than true (Gee.. look how much I can cut your costs!). I fail to see the correlation. With just a look at a person, you could guess his/her age and how much he/she could have explored mainframes. > I have noted that a number of the Indian participants on these lists feel the > need to give themselves a "Western" nom de plume (nom de clavier?). I hope > that this isn't from fear of not being welcomed, or of being treated as a > "drone", but I suspect it is. It is. I've seen a few cases in forums where someone asks for help on a problem (granted, he/she hasn't put the requirement across completely), and most of the experts just say - "R.T.F.M". It's better to not say anything than to say that. I mean, what good is that? There are loads of manuals; there's no need to spoon feed I agree, but not even point the direction? - Vignesh Mainframe Admin -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tony Harminc Sent: 22 April 2014 23:39 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Sorry state of IT education? On 22 April 2014 15:45, Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh <[email protected]> wrote: > I personally take offense to the "drone" bashing. Because I'm a "drone" now, > apparently. I read this not as drone bashing, but as management bashing. The word "drone" with its implication of idleness and other even less appropriate functions is not well applied here, but it has come into common use. > All of these comments seem to be from the perspective of higher ups > and folks who've had - years-of experience on the mainframe. It simply > isn't fair to expect the same depth of knowledge from a (relatively) > newcomer. Without a doubt, the technology that is mainframe, is > massive. It's not sane to expect some 100,000 manuals get cooked right into > an IT professional, when most of the folks on this (& elsewhere) list have > acquired the knowledge over years of beating on their craft. Indeed it isn't. And while I think you will find a friendly welcome here for anyone who is able and willing to learn, things get a bit tricky when inability is because of lack of time and/or opportunity rather than of willingness or native intelligence. > You ought to consider the conditions under which we're > working/learning. When a service provider takes up your IT > infrastructure service support, there's a reason that it's achievable at just > x% of what it cost earlier. No points for figuring out where that money is > cut out from. Generally these outsourcing services are not sold as "we can charge you less because we hire ill trained young Indians to replace your experienced technical people"! They are more likely to be sold using a combination of "wages for well trained technical people in India are much lower than they are in US/Canada/UK/etc." and "your experienced technical people are overpaid prima donnas who deserve some pain", both of which arguments probably appeal to some extent to the C-suite crowd who are not themselves likely to face being outsourced any time soon. But in fact, of course, the first claim is closer to the truth than the latter, and the lack of appropriate training and opportunity is largely disguised by the very distance and seen only in the long term results. I have noted that a number of the Indian participants on these lists feel the need to give themselves a "Western" nom de plume (nom de clavier?). I hope that this isn't from fear of not being welcomed, or of being treated as a "drone", but I suspect it is. Tony H. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN MARKSANDSPENCER.COM ________________________________ Unless otherwise stated above: Marks and Spencer plc Registered Office: Waterside House 35 North Wharf Road London W2 1NW Registered No. 214436 in England and Wales. Telephone (020) 7935 4422 Facsimile (020) 7487 2670 www.marksandspencer.com Please note that electronic mail may be monitored. This e-mail is confidential. If you received it by mistake, please let us know and then delete it from your system; you should not copy, disclose, or distribute its contents to anyone nor act in reliance on this e-mail, as this is prohibited and may be unlawful. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
