On 16/03/2018 12:18 PM, Kirk Wolf wrote:
David,
I'm pretty sure that I'm wasting my time trying to convince anyone here,
but I can't imagine ever going back to writing code with ISPF. Once you
get hooked on syntax-directed editing, code completion, being able to
quickly navigate function/variable uses<->defs, etc... you'll never want to
go back. Not to mention diff/merge tools like Meld (which is some really
incredible Python).
You can get all of that stuff in Vim too. ClangComplete for C/C++, Jedi
for Python. UNIX TUIs are superior to ISPF because they're full duplex
and can react to a key press.
For Java development you really do need a full blown IDE because of the
nature of the language. I've been using IntelliJ IDEA for Kotlin and
it's super slick with absolutely amazing
refactoring features. It has a code analyzer which scans the code and
then re-writes it! In my case it refactored away almost half of the code!
Since I'm more interested in attracting new developers to z/OS, I would
like to see better ways to use modern IDEs/tools with z/OS than I am to use
traditional mainframe tools (like ISPF) somewhere else.
The problem is that IBM seem to be hopeless at developing GUIs. z/OSMF
is a case in point. Compare the RMF charts to something slick like
Grafana and they are worlds apart (I wrote a Java program
that extracts RMF data using the distributed HTTP API and forwards it to
Grafana along with some network stats https://ibb.co/h7ToXx).
RDz has a different editor per language! The PD tool plug-ins make you
less productive than the ISPF green screens they're supposed to replace.
I am willing to swap any tool, UI or language
if something better comes along but the only decent GUI I've seen from
IBM is the CICS explorer.
We've got young guys (early 20s) working with us on a web UI. The holy
trinity of their tool chain is an editor (Atom), a shell and a web
browser. All of the doc is being done in markdown using Gitbook so no
need for an IDE.
Most of the new cool dev tools only have a CLI - npm, yarn, webpack,
polymer, docker etc. I noticed that the new z/OS provisioning tool only
has a CLI and the zosptfile syntax is a clone of docker. IMO that's a good
idea as admins don't like having to use a GUI like z/OSMF to install
something.
Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
http://dovetail.com
On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 9:41 PM, David Crayford <[email protected]> wrote:
On 16/03/2018 6:53 AM, Lester, Bob wrote:
Hi All,
I've been working on Mainframe since 1979. I love this thread.
Here's my idea. IBM should focus on building a World Class unix,
and provide full, seamless (TSO/ISPF ported to the dark side) access to the
classic side of z/OS for those that need it.
Rocket have a decent port of Vim for z/OS UNIX which I've been using for
months now. Can't say I miss ISPF when I'm working in the shell.
Totally different model, but.....
Thanks!
BobL
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Steve Smith
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 4:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: z/OS "interactive computing" - AKA TSO/ISPF or UNIX shell [
EXTERNAL ]
You really need at least two TSO sessions (per system), and some here
have up to six or so. As far as I know, that still requires multiple logon
IDs.
sas
On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 3:22 PM, John McKown <
[email protected]>
wrote:
On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 1:03 PM, Tom Marchant <
[email protected]> wrote:
...
Another reason that I like the UNIX shell is that I can have a number
of them all going at once (telnet or ssh multiple times) so that a
"long running" command does not stop me from doing other things. ISPF
can't really process its multiple screens well. I.e. I can't do a REXX
exec in an edit session (issuing a lot of ISREDIT commands, perhaps
looping) and, while that is running, swap screens over to SDSF to see
how a batch job is running and examine its output.
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