That reflect my original reaction to MVS-OE; it looked as though IBM dealt with everything required for certification and ignored high usage facility that didn't affect certification. Tolls that every Unix specialist expects aren't there. Things are better now, but there's still a lot missing.
OTOH, I also had the impression that the MVS-OE developers didn't understand the MVS way of doing things either. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> on behalf of Lee B <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 12:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: z/OS "interactive computing" - AKA TSO/ISPF or UNIX shell Hi Jerry, I'm an emacs man too (for unix work at least). Have you seen this, I wonder? https://secure-web.cisco.com/1zvG9JetMkG6Rloi6yt3MnhMv3441Pp0k-pIPpzsajsCgwVtNzJRFUuReq2BmidQ-yphuS8SLag-F8CfrrYqtDCB13KgoisJFJ1E1SVOcqmBS2z4yhSUbbabJ4URHn24RSXZqGUhr-rZhvNox_j82PY-hb9wnDgR2nzk5BjqB-4pw-dFYEZeK8jVJ7f4y1FC9JLbQ1mqQBeyWsN5VnMvjvxJ0_Qxrc9vLRHaeRBpn6ys8A16Cwf5NHVGhV2H6bnMIZrgqV99MMp0r6JecZMLyLfgcUlSsoxOjU1N298KqqD1qUq8aDfV6xObj426slncD3ydKyWz6HXwJgym7WT4QewqgQAoeMlp7Xt83bnBrll2ygqGY6hhlnyMlJJ2mUEqZLMN33ZrKQGNpWu4tEH-Qxt7PfuONfmJw4CrSyB3eRU7oKIjy1lxpRI_C8g_RgWVg/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcneira%2Fjes-emacs To be honest, it was this thread that prompted me to see if anyone had coerced emacs into talking to z/OS, and this was pretty much the only thing I found. I thought the whole emacs->z/OS thing seemed feasible (eg. via tramp or something) albeit potentially a fair amount of work... Lee. On 金, 3 16 2018, Jerry Callen wrote: > I'm going to be an EXTREME outlier here. > > Background: I learned computing on OS/360 thru MVS, first using cards, then > TSO/ISPF. I jumped ship to Unix in the mid 80s and now I'm back on the > mainframe, doing ports of open source software to z/OS (under USS) at Rocket > Software. > > I am logged into both USS (via ssh from PuTTY) and TSO/ISPF (via BlueZone) > from a Windows laptop all day long. If I had a decent tool for accessing JES > (there's no avoiding SDSF for the time being) from USS, I'd NEVER be in TSO. > > I use emacs as my development environment. I don't call it an "editor" > because it does so much more than edit text. In particular, the "shell > buffer" feature is indispensible; think of TSO session manager, but on insane > steroids. The USS port of emacs is ancient and creaky (though I dearly hope > we can remedy that within the next year), and I will grant that emacs has a > very stiff learning curve, but once you know it, it's unbelievably productive. > > For source control, I use the Rocket port of git. Essentially all of our > mainframe development is moving from other source control systems (SCLM, cvs, > svn) to git; there are good open source tools for converting from cvs and svn > that preserve all the history and branches. > > For builds, I use whatever the open source project I'm currently working on > uses, which is generally some variation on automake/autoconf/configure/make. > The automake/autoconf situation on z/OS isn't yet what it wants to be. For my > own projects, I just use raw make. I often create make files that work on > both USS and Linux on Z (my go-to Unix when I need to use a tool not yet on > USS). > > In short: I treat z/OS as a Unix box. Nearly all of the compilers (COBOL, > PL/I, C/C++, plus the assembler and binder) can be used from USS, on Unix > files (no need to move source, maclibs, include files, etc. into a PDS). IBM > has provided very good, albeit complex and tricky to use well, ASCII/EBCDIC > "bimodal" encoding support to ease the encoding problem. IBM is actively > porting newer languages (like JavaScript in node.js) to z/OS. > > I can run TSO commands from the shell prompt (using, of course, the "tsocmd" > command...) when I need to. I keep building tools to help insulate me from > TSO and batch (like my SMP query interface at > https://secure-web.cisco.com/14RoYr7CZ7Lu0bInIXsxyLdWk8A-5B5UANtkIumYj1oBHEJ8t_Wa_0EvrMK95-6rHuuCjLEWHLuiMkqC71Weap38W1ou2iFrVe41Ng1mmk66C3ZZuFeI4CgEFLSbyM2KVKKXwxcbn8lboKW5RUOTTMQTiI5BVVqvY072dhG0hCSoVLUjleStaLmK1njfTr2a-fybFeagmFP9hD8IXU4EYMI0jlQV2SzKuUtz0m-n-oznxXV4r6h17hbD8KOIA3odZCeyEb8MYUk7DjodEVC_yPaDnaNt3HE4h2b-oCBROtBRkX2X5ABTBlUWe3vTfkFWpkbfC3SAF0lSgFbp9NfURlWbiz5NfRSak4q03DgJ5r4r7ELGkAe02Nfa_an-lnF5YELPv2pjL_vrJmd9FKI_j6jxrG52foBl4tJFp25GzNfwq7sLQexpMNzt3vay2nSE9/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fzorts%2Fsmpapi%29, > and of course Rocket continues to release new and updated tools for free > (though our bandwidth is limited...). The big remaining hole is JES queue > access. I can, of course, submit jobs from USS, but getting the output in a > nice, consumable manner remains a challen! ge; hence, my TSO session. > > We have a cadre of younger developers who follow a similar path, though often > using vim instead of emacs, and im some cases Windows-based editors (Eclipse, > Webstorm, SlickEdit, etc.) and FTP. > > Bear in mind that my first "real" editor was ISPF, which I used for years. > Even with that history, I can't imagine using it for any serious editing at > this point. > > Slight diversion: Linux on Z is a VERY nice platform. I have rarely > encountered any problems porting x86 Unix code to Linux on Z, and usually I > don't have to; it's already a real, well-equipped Unix. Given hipersocket > connectivity to z/OS, I think it's got potential to be a terrific alternative > to USS. However, it's still just too weird for many shops: it requires a > completely new set of system administration skills, its own LPAR or VM, and > it just doesn't seem to getting much traction. > > -- Jerry > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
