On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 9:17 AM, narendra sisodiya <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Neeraj Goel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> I will just say that Windows was the requirement when you were first
>> inducted to computers.
>> (otherwise you might have devamoped a phobia from computer, that it is
>> too hard to learn)
>> And now you have learned a lot about computer so can make a good
>> choice for what OS you want to use on your desktop.
>>
>> This is the basic of learning system. We are always suppose to start
>> with simpler concepts/instruments/systems,
>> And go on with more complex and complete system.
>> So GOD is always wise and knows what is better when.
>>
>> As far as changing from one system to other system is concerned, when
>> you will be forced (by circumstances) you have to do it.
>> Like if the company you work in, have only solaris or mac machines,
>> then you have to work on a new OS. With the current knowledge
>> of two OS (linux and Windows) switch over will be easy. This external
>> force can be - new features you may like, market/job demand, acaedemic
>> requirement or govennment policies.
>>
>> Similarly, if you know C, it is easy to switch to C++; and with C++ to
>> Java. What we are discussing is increasing a step
>> before 'C'.
>>
>> As far as devaloping a new language by a Indian devalopers/scientists
>> is concerened, I would say with millions of devalopers in India,
>
>
Just give me 5-10 good web developer .. I am ready to produce Eduvid in 5
month which will be having a infact on whole education system and million
stduents of india will really give thanks.
You take rest of million coder with you to develop nation by your thoughts,
> it is
>> now more feasible then any other country.
>>
>
> Try out,
> It will not be useful, and it will be a waste of time.
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 7, 8:35 pm, "narendra sisodiya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>> > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Neeraj Goel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I understand your concern. To support your point I also belive that It
>> > > may happen even franch, chinees and russian
>> > > as a language will not survive in global envirnemnt. But they will
>> > > always survive in their local place.
>> > > In small cities, towns and villiges, english can not penitrate in even
>> > > next 20-50 years.
>> >
>> > > My prospective is, such kind of efforts are targeted for those
>> > > people. For example, we started learning science and mathematics
>> > > with Hindi medium and later at intermediate level (12 level)
>> > > everything changed to english
>> >
>> > we "shifted" from science to engineering -- ask them who do not shifted
>> > platform but medium, they suffer problems,,, and this example is not
>> > appropriate
>> >
>> > I think case is much different,
>> > even i do not have time to shift from my 1.5 year fedora experience to
>> > Gentoo, why a child will shift from "hindawi" to C++/Java in English,,
>> >
>> > You try to develop some packages/software using Hindawi/hindi font based
>> > coding,, you will get know that how much problem you will face,,, Same
>> thing
>> > will occur for those who has habit to problem in Hindi keywords but
>> later at
>> > some stage will be forced to code in English language . That time they
>> will
>> > suffer,and they will curse all those who promoted and hypnotized mind of
>> new
>> > generation,
>> >
>> > I know coding will become easier,,?? but it that the only criteria,,,??
>> , I
>> > will a solid example ,
>> > Please note that this example has apology
>> > *
>> > Coding in local language --> easy --> like window
>> > Coding in actual form , English --> small difficulty --> like Linux*
>> >
>> > "6 year before, GOD came to India with pirated CDs of window, and
>> > distributed to many new children like me and told us take this OS this
>> is
>> > very very easy to use and he hypnotised everybody in my region and
>> nobody
>> > told me about Linux OS. when I came to IIT I first coded in TC3 for
>> first 6
>> > month in windows again for next 6 month, not even professor of so called
>> IIT
>> > also told me.. and there was not active Linux group was there at that
>> > time,.later I came to know about Linux,. All the "A+ mastery" and
>> > everything I did on Linux was in last 3 semester. and I can say very
>> proud
>> > that my 6 CGPA of masters was really a 20+ CGPA efforts. That time I *
>> > "cursed/abused"* that GOD who did not told me about Linux in my BTech
>> time,
>> > I would have been learned a lot,, and this is the only reason why I am
>> so
>> > dedicatedly active in foss communities specially [EMAIL PROTECTED] for
>> > last 1+
>> year"
>> > "em-powering education by giving good educational content is the only
>> motto
>> > of my life"
>> >
>> > *You may hypnotise new generation and yourself and give them a
>> easy/complex
>> > tool for coding in local language but they will curse you later time
>> (just
>> > like me)
>> > and many thank to **"Bjarne Stroustrup" who do not think *like* this
>> other
>> > wise he will make C++ in his local language (he is from denmark, ) and I
>> and
>> > whole world will be learning language of denmark (idk) by this time,
>> !!!!!!
>> > *
>> > *
>> > *"I always say please make educational content to teach village and poor
>> > children" that way you can em-power them ."
>> > even I have a example , where "illiterate village females , local artist
>> in
>> > their art" got good command over Photoshop during digitising process of
>> > their art.
>> > All they were given a good training --- that is all needed,, yes,, I am
>> > fully favour in giving training in local languages.. infact my tool
>> "Eduvid"
>> > will be having multilingual features,,
>> >
>> > Last but serious,, -- "my nephew use hindi theme in nokia mobile , he is
>> > very little and under 5th class, he can change all sort of settings ,
>> and he
>> > is comfortable to that theme, because mobile dealer gave him as default
>> > theme, the dealer has made that theme mother-theme, he is ready to
>> change
>> > it, just like , today i do not have time to sit and know hack about
>> > gentoo,.adn start coding on gentoo,,, fedora works fine for me,,,
>> ,,scale
>> > this example.,, if he work for hindi coding and software , he will face
>> > difficulty.at later time,,,"
>> >
>> > Very frankly I am not worry , not even 1%.. I know , never a
>> Indian/anybody
>> > will be able to make a good coding platform in local language or if he
>> able
>> > to develop also , that scheme will not sustain..and will fail after a
>> time,
>> > no body will use it,,
>> >
>> > Please believe me ,, this task has "NP hard " complexity,,
>> > If "development of India" is the only goal and there and always many
>> > "visible" ways to do it,,
>> >
>> > . The same would be advanatge of
>> >
>> > > introducing these local language based computer courses. And
>> > > programming and the related tools will definately help student to
>> > > think more logical.
>> >
>> > > As far as custmores are concerned, anybody can buy softwares made by
>> > > these languages. Does it matter if a software is written in c or c++
>> > > or java?
>> >
>> > > Specifically as I said earlier, the major advanatage of such software
>> > > would be for people who has very specific needs. For example, in a
>> > > office somebody need to do to schedule some jobs/person every month
>> > > and it consume a lot of time and mind. If a local programmers - like a
>> > > 6th class student is made to understand his problem and code it in the
>> > > computer, the problem may be solved.
>> >
>> > If he able to do in hindi, he will be able to do in English also,, I do
>> not
>> > know how the hell some #defines or hindi font can help,a student ??, All
>> he
>> > need to learn, some keyword,in English,
>> >
>> > The software designed by student
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > may not be good in efficieny or data structure but if works that is
>> > > good enough. And I guess it should not be un-imaginable to get a 10
>> > > year old to solve a well defined problem.
>> >
>> > > I hope I made my point.
>> >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > > Neeraj
>> >
>> > > On Oct 7, 4:38 pm, "narendra sisodiya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > Never in a time of history, we Indian got a platform to have a
>> common
>> > > > things, like language, communication , etc,
>> > > > now at the age of Internet and globalization, we Indians are getting
>> a
>> > > > common platform which is "computer and English" ,
>> > > > Localisation of software and their GUIs is again a new "divide and
>> rule"
>> > > > kind of thing. localisation will keep us divide and never we will be
>> able
>> > > to
>> > > > stand in front of world.
>> > > > for example, in my office, if everybody has done their master/BE in
>> their
>> > > > local language then you can assume how much problems of
>> communication we
>> > > > will be facing,,
>> > > > As a technical point of view, you can assume it like -- microsoft
>> create
>> > > VB
>> > > > and VML, but w3c specify JavaScript and SVG to do the things, so
>> > > microsoft
>> > > > should make their browser compatible to new standard which are world
>> wide
>> > > > accepted..
>> > > > You can assume English as worldwide standard for communication and
>> > > computing
>> > > > language. and we should adopt it. If we do not support it, we will
>> face
>> > > > problems. This is a true fact.
>> >
>> > > > Please do not give any example of China and France, "they have
>> a a
>> > > > common agreed communication language" and we have many many language
>> > > inside
>> > > > country.
>> >
>> > > > We cannot translate whole Internet to Hindi and Telugu etc, we
>> cannot
>> > > > translate whole materials, daily we use to get a whole lot of
>> software
>> > > and
>> > > > framework, how much effort will be needed to make it,,,
>> >
>> > > > Even if we able to make two very high level computer language
>> in
>> > > Hindi
>> > > > and Telugu and by magic many "North + south Indian" are started
>> using
>> > > it,,
>> > > > Will it be useful,?? to whom we will sell software, ?? why client
>> will
>> > > take
>> > > > them ?? moreover we will be limited in our "golden cage" ,,
>> >
>> > > > "Please do not recommend Hindi or local language based
>> coding to
>> > > > anyone or mailing list other wise I will come to your home after
>> some
>> > > year
>> > > > tell your baby to lean coding in "Hindi / local language" and that
>> time,
>> > > do
>> > > > not stop me" and yes i will bring copy of hindubuntu or telubuntu
>> with me
>> > > > also,,
>> >
>> > > > You know for us it will topic does not matter much,, but soon
>> > > after
>> > > > 2-5 year, may be due to politics, these local language software or
>> coding
>> > > > have a fair chance to become part of syllabus. that generation will
>> > > suffer,,
>> >
>> > > > Even a child who do not speak English can work and play
>> computer,,
>> > > So,
>> > > > Do you still think that we need Hindi GUI software??
>> >
>> > > > Yes we need , but only in the limited case ,, and that limited
>> case
>> > > > where the user is like my papa or mamma,
>> >
>> > > > But Those software and programming should not be included in
>> > > academic
>> > > > section, because today every student has basic knowledge of English,
>> so
>> > > it
>> > > > will not be difficult to learn computer,,, But if you teach
>> computers and
>> > > > programming using Hindi or Telugu GUI software , right from
>> childhood ,
>> > > they
>> > > > will suffer in future
>> > > > This is similar to "shifting from window addiction to Linux"
>> --
>> > > even
>> > > > I have addiction of Fedora Linux,, I cannot and do not want to work
>> other
>> > > > then Fedora.
>> >
>> > > > But our main talk was, "coding is local language" -- I do not prefer
>> this
>> > > > idea.
>> >
>> > > > Please do not spread or work in this idea. If you still
>> want
>> > > to
>> > > > code you can code in local language , you can try out like this,,
>> >
>> > > > save all '#defines' in separate file to make your code clean,
>> >
>> > > > #include<iostream>
>> > > > using namespace std ;
>> > > > # define agar if(
>> > > > # define jab_tak_ki {
>> > > > # define esa_karo do
>> > > > # define shuru {
>> > > > # define tab ){
>> > > > # define khatam_agar }
>> > > > # define pahla_function main
>> > > > # define ank int
>> > > > # define manlo int
>> > > > # define mana_ki int
>> > > > # define barabar_ho ==
>> > > > # define barabar =
>> > > > # define likho cout<<
>> > > > # define vapus_chalo return
>> >
>> > > > ank pahla_function (){
>> > > > mana_ki aai barabar 5 ;
>> > > > agar aai barabar_ho 5 tab
>> > > > likho "ramram dunia\n";
>> > > > khatam_agar
>> > > > vapus_chalo 0;
>> >
>> > > > }
>> >
>> > > > Note : This code will compile without any error on gcc, and will
>> give
>> > > > results also,,
>> > > > save it as mera_code.cpp
>> > > > and try this
>> >
>> > > > # gcc mera_code.cpp
>> > > > # ./a.out
>> >
>> > > > @phani
>> > > > I will try to write all these in my blog,,,
>> >
>> > -- ...
>> >
>> > read more »
>> >>
>>
>
>
> --
> ┌───[ Narendra Sisodiya ]──────────────┐
> │ http://narendra.techfandu.org
> │ http://www.lug-iitd.org
> └────────────[ +91-93790-75930 ]──────┘
>
--
┌───[ Narendra Sisodiya ]──────────────┐
│ http://narendra.techfandu.org
│ http://www.lug-iitd.org
└────────────[ +91-93790-75930 ]──────┘
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