On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Manas Laha wrote:
> Its difficult to put numbers to it but the "haves" help the "have-nots"
> when the latter are in dire straits because in the long run they hope to
> get more than they give. If that actually happens then the "have-nots"
> stand to be the ultimate losers, don't they.
I believe it was Tagore when comparing eastern and western philosophies
that often noted that people in the "West" think of themselves as an
island. They do not realize that the things that they do affect other
people around them, and that what others do affect them.
You would think that all societies that were no longer nomadic would
recognize the interdependence we all have on each other. Many of the most
rich and powerful mistakenly believe that creating a 'gated community' to
protect themselves is cheaper than helping the disadvantaged to a level
where they don't need to steal to survive. .
There is unfortunately a huge learning curve that is needed. I don't
want to sound harsh, but my few trips to India made me wonder if the wrong
lessons are being learned by the wrong people (IE: that people in India
were getting more isolated in their thinking, rather than the west
learning to be more aware of their surroundings).
My hope is that some of the sharing mentality that is part of the Open
Source/Free Software movement can help to reverse this trend.
> > It is interesting, but my outsider perception has been different. I get
> > the impression that the Indian Government, and especially state
> > governments like WB, are doing pretty good given the resources they have.
>
> Let's hear what the LUG has to say on this one!
Put it in this context: Don't so much look at where you are, but where
you are facing. Is there an attempt to make things better or worse?
Putting things in absolute terms doesn't really work because of the
population, cultural, and other very large differences. Population is
pretty important: India is barely larger than Ontario (the province I live
in) by size, but India has 1/6 the worlds population.
With Canada's natural resources and wealth, and total lack of any
significant population to think about, you would think that poverty,
homelessness and other such things would be totally eradicated. If
anything, things are getting worse.
> I think you are right, there. Unfortunately this is exactly what seems
> to be happening. There has been a hurry to embrace computers here -- the
> "we have to catch up with them" syndrome -- and a tendency to grab at
> whatever bait is on offer without first checking if there is a hook
> attached to it.
India spends so much time believing it needs to catch up, when it has
the opportunity to bypass and surpass. If India totally skipped large
parts of the Industrial era and moved directly to a post-Industrial
knowledge/services economy, India could potentially totally flip who is
considered "first" world and who "2'nd and third".
In a legitimate knowledge/services economy, the most important input to
the economy is people-power - something India obviously has plenty of, if
she were able to use this resource properly. Education and laying down
information and communications infrastructure becomes as important as
building roads was to the old economy.
> Oh! well, people will go where they can get the best value for their
> skills. Nothing wrong with that. And the money they send back home
> certainly helps. But more than their money we need their brains, we need
> their hands. Do you get my point?
I do get the point.
But I don't totally agree that there is "nothing wrong with that" as
far as people moving to where they can get the best short-term value for
their skills.
Too many governments talk about "Free Trade" and allowing the unfettered
movement of goods, but will not apply the same criteria to the movement of
people (Citizens, workers,etc). Canada only lets in the best people from
other countries, essentially accomplishing on a planetary scale the
ghettoization which the USA is well known for in its major cities.
As a nettizen I'm someone who believes in breaking down all barriers,
but believe that the current system is skewed far too much to the benefit
of a few (rich North Americans primarily) to the detriment of the
majority.
> > Are there forums for this type of thing? My main connection back to
> > India is through ilug-cal so I tend to ask questions here, but this may
> > not be the best place.
>
> Not to my knowledge. What do the other LUG members say? My personal
> feeling is that we are not yet very clear about *what* we should be
> advocating.
I also suspect that some will feel that this general forum is getting
far too general. I mentioned Literacy, but not Linux in the above
message.
If you want some advocacy ideas, you can probably tell I am full of
them. I am slowly getting better at articulating them as I am now doing
presentations to government economics and lawyers, so need to get better.
One thought: This is a "Linux" users group, and I'm curious if it is
simply Linux that is the interest. One thing I have noted in other groups
is that there are three distinct (but related) areas:
Linux - people focus on 'cool toys' and getting a computer to do
interesting things.
Open Source - focus on engineering efficiency for the development and
distribution of software.
Free Software - looks at the public policy and philosophical
implications/impacts of how technology/knowledge is used.
You can probably tell I am in the last group - I use Linux because it is
Free Software, not because I think Linux itself is all that interesting.
If some in the group wanted to focus on Linux itself, would there be an
interest to create a 2'nd group for advocacy that would include the second
two areas?
> - Manas Laha
---
Russell McOrmond, Internet Consultant: <http://www.flora.ca/>
See http://weblog.flora.ca/ for announcements, activities, and opinions
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