You  should  better  except first-contact email adresses as "sales" or
"info" from greylisting.

Good  greylisting  implementations support lists for server Adresses to
be  excluded  - so you can exclude the major world wide email services
-which did not send from a single netblock- from greylisting too. Even
a  0 minute Greylisting (allow second attempt directly after the first
4xx) stops lots of spam.

ASSP  supports  all  these  exclusions  and is already deliverd with a
exemption list. Even with lots of exclusions, greylisting does a great
job to stop Zombie-Mailers and viruses.

I  think  any  responsibly configured email server will retry a 4xx error after 
a
short   period  -  greylisting  is  widely spreaded and commonly used.


Matti



>> There  are extreme, pathological cases that greylisting bothers. eg,
>> legit  servers  that  aren't  RFC-compatible  and simply NEVER retry
>> after  seeing  a 4xx reject, or servers that retry 12+ hours after a
>> 4xx reject.

> Yep,  but  there  are  also  MTA  behaviors  that are *not* so easy to
> demonize  that  also  prevent  efficient  delivery when they encounter
> common greylisting implementations.

> One  is  the  shuffling  of  outbound  mail  across  servers in a mail
> delivery farm during the retry interval. As a result, the source IP of
> each  attempt,  and thus the triplet, is different. In such cases, you
> have to just cross your fingers that the original triplet comes around
> again before the client screams. Greylisting based on the Class C will
> help when applicable, but that's not available in all greylisting imps
> (IMO,  greylisting  should  not be said to be implemented in a product
> *unless* it supports Class C tuples, with Class C the default setting,
> but this is not always the case).

> Another  is  the  use  of  MXs  that do not share the same greylisting
> database. I know you and I agree that all MXs should enforce the exact
> same policies. (You've also taken the stance that backup MXs should be
> administratively  down until failure of the primary is detected, which
> is  persuasive,  but let's admit that in reality this is rarely done.)
> But  even  if  the  exact  same  policies are enforced in a standalone
> sense,  it  may  not  be  practical  to  have  a "shared state" across
> geographically  dispersed  and  highly  active  MXs  when  it comes to
> greylisting.  As  a result, each MX is building an independent triplet
> database,  and  while that will have no substantive effect on the time
> for the *first* message to pass greylisting, it will take at least n =
> (number  of  unsync'd  MXs  of  lowest  weight) messages with the same
> triplet  coming  in  before each MX database is up-to-date. MXs on the
> same  LAN may have no excuse not to have some kind of synchronization,
> yes,  but busy faraway and/or externally managed MXs, no. This problem
> fixes itself over time, but will that happen before you lose a client?
> Maybe, maybe not.

> A  third  is  really  human  behavior,  not MTA behavior. It's a basic
> imbalance  between the size/entitlement/respect of the sending side of
> a  business  relationship  and  the  receiving  side.  To say that the
> expectation of first-time delivery is a mistake to be corrected by the
> sender  (when you ask why the senders aren't "retrying in less than 12
> hours, in the first place") is wishful thinking. If I'm a small mutual
> fund  provider  and  I  want  Charles  Schwab to sell my funds, sorry,
> Schwab  has every "right," such as it is, to be on a 2-, 3-, or 4-hour
> retry  interval  because  of  their  status  in  the industry and huge
> volume.  If  my  use  of  greylisting means their first response to my
> sales  group  gets delayed 4 hours, that's my fault, period. No one is
> ever  going  to  blame them. Believe me, I've tried, even going on the
> record  with  claptrap  like "Any 800-pound gorilla should ensure that
> their  mail  farm  is  sized  correctly  for  a 15- or 30-minute retry
> interval,"  but  the backlash was strong. I can't risk losing a client
> over  that  declaration, even if online support communities think it's
> right.

> The  big  wildcard  with  greylisting  and any "give-to-get" anti-spam
> tactic  are  the  business relationships to which we all owe our jobs.
> And  critical  groups like sales, who for better or worse define those
> business relationships that override technical "truth," rarely give IT
> a  "preview"  of their current campaigns to ensure prewhitelisting. It
> just  doesn't  work like that, even in very successful companies. Much
> as  we  all  would  like to think the quality of the interface with IT
> should be directly linked to a company's success -- it's not.

>> The  chances  of  any  specific  MX  actually  seeing  one  of these
>> RFC-incompatible nutjobs is extremely small.

> The  not-so-nutty exceptions are encountered by sites big and small: I
> have experienced all three in teeny-tiny sites. Maybe that's bad luck,
> but  that's  clearly  the  way  it's been for David as well. The first
> behavior  I  mention above was just last week being experienced by one
> of  my very small clients, one of whose only slightly bigger customers
> uses  a  giant  French ISP for their business accounts. Do I think the
> customer  is  a  "real"  business?  Hard  to  say.  Joke,  technically
> speaking.  But  I can't front on the business they bring in, nor can I
> disagree  with  the ISP's use of many MXs on multiple subnets. The ISP
> reasons that they're dealing with personal traffic, so they don't care
> that  their  architecture  might  be  problematic  for  some  business
> recipients.  Their goal is a highly robust, multi-tier outbound queue.
> Nothing non-RFC about it. They do it, we deal with it.

> Now, bear in mind that I have been a proponent of greylisting from the
> get.  I used it as soon as I could, but I also dealt with user outrage
> immediately.  Since  then,  I have taken a more conservative approach.
> Conditional  greylisting,  where  a  g/l triplet is only considered if
> other  tests, such as DNSBL or PTR lookup failures or other thresholds
> met,  is  infinitely  safer, because you can point to more examples of
> misdeeds  on  the  sender's end besides just "How dare they send to us
> for the first time?" :)

> --Sandy


> ------------------------------------
> Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist
> Broadleaf Systems, a division of
> Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc.
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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- 
Matti Haack - Hit Haack IT Service Gmbh
Poltlbauer Weg 4, D-94036 Passau
+49 851 50477-22 Fax: +49 851 50477-29
http://www.haack-it.de



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