Hi, Johannes:
Please find my comments inline.
On 29/12/17 14:32, Johannes Singler wrote:
Hi Rafael,
thanks for your feedback.
Am 29.12.2017 um 06:22 schrieb Rafael Avila Coya:
Hi, Johannes:
Thank you for this work.
I have just small questions about the import.
I am not swiss, so I am not going to doubt that suburbs don't have
administrative significance, as you say in the wiki. But a bit further
down in the wiki you say "We will not import the neighborhoods
("Wohnbezirke"), as some of their names are not familiar to the
general public, but seem to exist for administrative statistical
purposes only."
So my understanding is that neighborhoods have some administrative
use, and so I find it a bit strange that suburbs, that are higher
level than neighborhoods, don't have any administrative interest (not
even statistical).
Both are used for statistical purposes by the administration, the
suburbs even more so. However, there exist no political institutions
for suburbs/neighborhoods (at least not consistently), that was the main
argument on the Swiss mailing list. But maybe we over-interpret the
term "administrative" here, it does not read "political" after all.
@Simon, what do you think?
In Bern, we have admin_levels both 9 and 10. Okay, for 9, there exist
"Quartierkommissionen" as political institutions (except for the inner
city), but I don't know any political institution for admin_level 10
(e.g. Breitenrain).
Maybe you are being (or were being, cause you have already uploaded the
data with boundary=administrative) over-interpretative. I guess we don't
need a political institution in an administrative division to be
considered administrative. Just if it has administrative interest would
suffice.
I've seen a total of 137 administrative divisions in Switzerland
(already counting the Basel ones) with admin_level=9, and a similar
number for admin_level=10. So my opinion is that tagging them as
boundary=administrative + admin_level=9 is the optimal solution.
Also, in the boundary=administrative wiki [1] it gives admin_level=10
for neighborhoods in Switzerland, so it might be admin_level=9 or so
according to the wiki?
Sure, admin_level=9 would be the perfect fit.
Ok then.
In case of continuing with that tagging, I guess the suburb segments
should have a boundary=suburb tag (they come with no tags in the osm
file you share).
True, I forgot that. However, the suburbs share many segments with
higher-level administrative boundaries, should those then have the tag
twice, or two semicolon-separated values for the key? One more argument
for using boundary=administrative, it seems.
The rule is that each segment should have as admin_level the highest
level of all the admin divisions it belongs to. All inner suburb
segments lacked the admin_level=9 tag, so I've just added it now [1].
boundary=suburb, as a new tag, should be documented in the OSM wiki,
in case it's finally decided to continue with that tagging schema.
Well, it says " All commonly used values according to Taginfo" there,
and "suburb" is used in other places already. "statistical" would be an
alternative that is used even more often already.
I was meaning that boundary=suburb wasn't, afaik, documented.
But place=suburb is, althouth it's another thing (same value but for a
different key).
Overall, the simplest would be to just use boundary=administrative
instead of boundary/place=suburb.
Another argument against place/boundary=suburb is that the suburbs do
not appear in address searches, e.g. "Terwijde" does not appear for this
search:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=oskar%20nedbalhof#map=19/52.10646/5.03946&layers=N
Johannes
Although a bit off-topic, I have seen that all boundaries in Switzerland
need some corrections. When looking at level 9 entities, I checked for
example Jorat-Menthue (admin_level=8), in District du Gros-de-Vaud (6),
Canton of Vaud, that is divided in 5 admin_level=9 entities. I saw that
this Jorat-Menthue is duplicated (2 relations) [2]. It would be nice
that an experienced user of the Swiss OSM community has a check
nation-wide to correct this and other errors.
[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/55019451
[2] Jorat-Menthue (1): https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1868685
Jorat-Menthue (2): https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6857388
Cheers,
Rafael.
Cheers, and have an excellent end of the year,
Rafael.
[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dadministrative
On 28/12/17 14:42, Johannes Singler wrote:
Hi everyone,
after discussing this on the Swiss OSM mailing list (talk-ch), I
hereby announce the import of the suburbs of the city of Basel in
Switzerland.
The one-time import is manual and comprises 19 suburbs. It touches
three country borders, though.
The import wiki page can be found here:
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/City_of_Basel_Suburb_Import>
I'm a local mapper living in the area.
Looking forward to your comments,
Johannes
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