>From the previous discussions, there seems to be Confusion between Circium argyracanthum and C. verutum. Let us have a closer look at its nomenclature:
*FBI from IBIS Flora*: *Cnicus argyracanthus* (DC.) C.B.Clarke <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/cnicus-argyracanthus-dc-cbclarke> (Stem cottony, leaves glabrous above cottony or glabrate beneath lobes and teeth strongly spinescent, radical petioled pinnatifid lobes rounded, cauline broader cordate amplexicaul, *heads 3/4-1 in. diam, sessile densely fascicled involucrate, invol. bracts with woolly margins and long strong erect or spreading spines, innermost linear acuminate, corolla 1/2 in. white. **Carduus argyracanthus*, Wall. Cat. 2903. TEMPERATE HIMALAYA, *alt. 6-9000 ft.,* from Murree to Bhutan (excl. Sikkim). *A more slender plant than C. involucratus, with the leaves always glabrous above and much more numerous smaller and densely fascicled heads.* Achenes 1/8 in. long ; pappus 1/2 in., nearly white.) Description above matches with specimens of *C. argyracanthum* (POWO <https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:195029-1>)- one <http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/detailsQuery.do?barcode=K001118167>, two <http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/detailsQuery.do?barcode=K000250088> *Cnicus involucratus* Wall. ex DC. <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/cnicus-involucratus-wall-ex-dc> (*T**all, stout, erect,* *leaves setulose above white-tomentose beneath* teeth and lobes spinescent, radical petioled pinnate, segments lanceolate sinuate-lobed or toothed, cauline broader cordate-amplexicaul ovate or lanceolate pinnatifid, *heads 1.1/2-2.1/2 in. diam, solitary or fascicled involucrate, invol. bracts glabrate all ending in slender erect or subrecurved spines or a few innermost linear acuminate, corolla 1 in. long.* TEMPERATE HIMALAYA ; from Kashmir to Bhotan, alt. *8-12,000 ft.* *Stem as thick below as the little finger, 2-6 ft. high, branched above. Leaves, radical a foot long, pinnatifid to the middle or deeper, or to the base with distant lobes.* *Heads inclined ;* corolla glabrous. Achenes 1/5 in. long, obovoid-oblong, margins obtuse ; pappus 2/3 in., brown.—Western specimens of this have more rigid leaves, spinescent above, and longer stronger invol. spines than the Sikkim ones have. *De Candolle describes the corollas as purple, which they appear to be when dry, but they are pale yellow-white when fresh.* I have gathered in E. Nipal withered specimens of a plant like this, but with the leaves quite glabrous above and many rows of inner invol. bracts with soft reflexed flat wrinkled tips. I have also seen in Sikkim and the Khasia leaves supposed to belong to this species that are quite glabrous above.) Description above matches with specimens of *C. verutum* (POWO <https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:196173-1>)- one <http://www.kew.org/herbcatimg/358304.jpg> (C. involucratus of FBI) and two <http://www.kew.org/herbcatimg/358305.jpg> (C. involucratus of FBI), the following may be the real C.verutum: Cirsium sp?? — enroute Dhel at GHNP – PKA30 <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/D3CMasVd7g8> (12000 ft.) *Cnicus wallichii* (DC.) C.B.Clarke <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/cnicus-wallichii-dc-cbclarke> (*DC. Prodr.* vi. 643 (Cirsium) ; stem pubescent leafy, leaves sessile sinuate-pinnatifid lobes spinescent lobulate spines very long and strong glabrous above and beneath or cottony or tomentose beneath, *heads 3/4-1.1/2 in. solitary and on naked peduncles or sessile fascicled and involucrate, outer invol. bracts lanceolate ending in **appressed** erect or recurved spines, inner with spreading or recurved more or less dilated, lanceolate or ovate spreading or recurved scarious serrulate acute or spinescent tips, *corolla 2/3 in. long. *C. carlinoides*, Cass. var. B, Herb. Ind. Or. H. f. & T. TEMPERATE HIMALAYA ; from Marri to Bhotan,* alt. 6-12,000 ft. *NILGHERRY Mts., alt. 6000 ft. *An extremely variable plant, 4-10 ft. high, with spreading branches, which passes into C. argyracanthus through var. Wightiana in the Eastern Himalayas and the Nilgherries.* The following varieties pass into one another in the most perplexing way. *Corolla white, yellow or red (according to Clarke)*.) *Cnicus wallichii* var. *nepalensis* (DC.) Hook.f. <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/cnicus-wallichii-var-nepalensis-dc-hookf> (leaves white-tomentose beneath,*heads peduncled, inner invol. tracts with broadly dilated scarious reflexed tips in many series more numerous than the outer spiniferous ones, sometimes occupying two thirds of the head.* Cnicus arachnoides, Wall. Cat. 2891. C. Wallichii, Clarke Comp. Ind. 219. Cirsium nepalense, DC. Prodr. vi. 642.) GBIF <https://www.gbif.org/species/3112711> specimen- one <https://www.gbif.org/tools/zoom/simple.html?src=//api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/http%3A%2F%2Fn2t.net%2Fark%3A%2F65665%2Fm34ab4cae5-1062-421c-a2d1-c9563688e6cf> (*Cnicus wallichii *(DC.) C.B.Clarke), POWO <https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:196195-1> specimen- one <http://www.kew.org/herbcatimg/684782.jpg> (Cnicus arachnoides Wall.) and two <http://www.kew.org/herbcatimg/359206.jpg> (*Cnicus wallichii* var. *nepalensis* (DC.) Hook.f. <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/cnicus-wallichii-var-nepalensis-dc-hookf> ) *Flora of China*: *Cirsium verutum <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200023700>* (D. Don) Sprengel <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200023700> syn: *Cnicus verutus* D. Don, Prodr. Fl. Nepal. 167. 1825; *Cirsium involucratum* Candolle, nom. illeg. superfl. (2900-3900 m.) *Cirsium argyracanthum <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242313045>* Candolle <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242313045> syn: *Cirsium tibeticum* Kitamura; *Cnicus argyracanthus* (Candolle) C. B. Clarke (2100-3700 m.) Annotated checklist of the flowering plants of Nepal <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=242313045> (*Cirsium verutum* (D. Don) Spreng. with *Cirsium* *argyracanthum* DC. <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=242313045>, *Cirsium* *involucratum* DC. <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=242313091>, *Cnicus* *argyracanthus* (DC.) C. B. Clarke <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=242421458> as syn.) (750-2200 m) >From the above analysis, I feel most our specimens from lower elevation may be of *Cnicus argyracanthus* (DC.) C.B.Clarke <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/cnicus-argyracanthus-dc-cbclarke> Hi, Singh ji, If you agree with my analysis above, I will resurface old threads at Cirsium verutum <https://efloraofindia.com/2011/02/15/cirsium-verutum/> with correct identification. -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CA%2BiuSFC386wNrrxLBdGa27Nbt6ZMyG7p%2BKk%2BFELRKGV%2B0p%3D%3DRg%40mail.gmail.com.
