Thanks, Singh ji. I do not think we have any such post in efi so far as per images at POWO <https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:196191-1>.
On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 at 21:17, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > Garg ji while comparing please keep Cirsium vulgare in mind. Although not > listed in BSI Flora or FBI, the species is a weed naturalised > in many parts of the world including India and Pakistan. The heads > resemble C. verutum but leaves are narrower and not white beneath, > involucre bracts although green like V. verutum, much more narrower and > sharply pointed. and spreading. > > > > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > Retired Associate Professor > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ > > > On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 2:02 PM J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > >> From the previous discussions, there seems to be Confusion between >> Circium argyracanthum and C. verutum. >> Let us have a closer look at its nomenclature: >> >> *FBI from IBIS Flora*: >> *Cnicus argyracanthus* (DC.) C.B.Clarke >> <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/cnicus-argyracanthus-dc-cbclarke> >> (Stem cottony, leaves glabrous above cottony or glabrate beneath lobes >> and teeth strongly spinescent, radical petioled pinnatifid lobes rounded, >> cauline broader cordate amplexicaul, *heads 3/4-1 in. diam, sessile >> densely fascicled involucrate, invol. bracts with woolly margins and long >> strong erect or spreading spines, innermost linear acuminate, corolla 1/2 >> in. white. **Carduus argyracanthus*, Wall. Cat. 2903. >> TEMPERATE HIMALAYA, *alt. 6-9000 ft.,* from Murree to Bhutan (excl. >> Sikkim). >> *A more slender plant than C. involucratus, with the leaves always >> glabrous above and much more numerous smaller and densely fascicled heads.* >> Achenes 1/8 in. long ; pappus 1/2 in., nearly white.) >> >> Description above matches with specimens of *C. argyracanthum* (POWO >> <https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:195029-1>)- >> one <http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/detailsQuery.do?barcode=K001118167>, two >> <http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/detailsQuery.do?barcode=K000250088> >> >> *Cnicus involucratus* Wall. ex DC. >> <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/cnicus-involucratus-wall-ex-dc> >> (*T**all, stout, erect,* *leaves setulose above white-tomentose beneath* >> teeth and lobes spinescent, radical petioled pinnate, segments lanceolate >> sinuate-lobed or toothed, cauline broader cordate-amplexicaul ovate or >> lanceolate pinnatifid, *heads 1.1/2-2.1/2 in. diam, solitary or >> fascicled involucrate, invol. bracts glabrate all ending in slender erect >> or subrecurved spines or a few innermost linear acuminate, corolla 1 in. >> long.* >> TEMPERATE HIMALAYA ; from Kashmir to Bhotan, alt. *8-12,000 ft.* >> *Stem as thick below as the little finger, 2-6 ft. high, branched above. >> Leaves, radical a foot long, pinnatifid to the middle or deeper, or to the >> base with distant lobes.* *Heads inclined ;* corolla glabrous. Achenes >> 1/5 in. long, obovoid-oblong, margins obtuse ; pappus 2/3 in., >> brown.—Western specimens of this have more rigid leaves, spinescent above, >> and longer stronger invol. spines than the Sikkim ones have. *De >> Candolle describes the corollas as purple, which they appear to be when >> dry, but they are pale yellow-white when fresh.* I have gathered in E. >> Nipal withered specimens of a plant like this, but with the leaves quite >> glabrous above and many rows of inner invol. bracts with soft reflexed flat >> wrinkled tips. I have also seen in Sikkim and the Khasia leaves supposed to >> belong to this species that are quite glabrous above.) >> >> Description above matches with specimens of *C. verutum* (POWO >> <https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:196173-1>)- >> one <http://www.kew.org/herbcatimg/358304.jpg> (C. involucratus of FBI) >> and two <http://www.kew.org/herbcatimg/358305.jpg> (C. involucratus of >> FBI), the following may be the real C.verutum: >> Cirsium sp?? — enroute Dhel at GHNP – PKA30 >> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/D3CMasVd7g8> (12000 >> ft.) >> >> *Cnicus wallichii* (DC.) C.B.Clarke >> <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/cnicus-wallichii-dc-cbclarke> >> (*DC. Prodr.* vi. 643 (Cirsium) ; stem pubescent leafy, leaves sessile >> sinuate-pinnatifid lobes spinescent lobulate spines very long and strong >> glabrous above and beneath or cottony or tomentose beneath, *heads >> 3/4-1.1/2 in. solitary and on naked peduncles or sessile fascicled and >> involucrate, outer invol. bracts lanceolate ending in **appressed** >> erect or recurved spines, inner with spreading or recurved more or less >> dilated, lanceolate or ovate spreading or recurved scarious serrulate acute >> or spinescent tips, *corolla 2/3 in. long. *C. carlinoides*, Cass. var. >> B, Herb. Ind. Or. H. f. & T. >> >> TEMPERATE HIMALAYA ; from Marri to Bhotan,* alt. 6-12,000 ft. *NILGHERRY >> Mts., alt. 6000 ft. >> *An extremely variable plant, 4-10 ft. high, with spreading branches, >> which passes into C. argyracanthus through var. Wightiana in the Eastern >> Himalayas and the Nilgherries.* The following varieties pass into one >> another in the most perplexing way. *Corolla white, yellow or red >> (according to Clarke)*.) >> >> *Cnicus wallichii* var. *nepalensis* (DC.) Hook.f. >> <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/cnicus-wallichii-var-nepalensis-dc-hookf> >> (leaves >> white-tomentose beneath,*heads peduncled, inner invol. tracts with >> broadly dilated scarious reflexed tips in many series more numerous than >> the outer spiniferous ones, sometimes occupying two thirds of the head.* >> Cnicus arachnoides, Wall. Cat. 2891. C. Wallichii, Clarke Comp. Ind. 219. >> Cirsium nepalense, DC. Prodr. vi. 642.) >> >> GBIF <https://www.gbif.org/species/3112711> specimen- one >> <https://www.gbif.org/tools/zoom/simple.html?src=//api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/http%3A%2F%2Fn2t.net%2Fark%3A%2F65665%2Fm34ab4cae5-1062-421c-a2d1-c9563688e6cf> >> (*Cnicus wallichii *(DC.) C.B.Clarke), POWO >> <https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:196195-1> >> specimen- one <http://www.kew.org/herbcatimg/684782.jpg> (Cnicus >> arachnoides Wall.) and two <http://www.kew.org/herbcatimg/359206.jpg> >> (*Cnicus >> wallichii* var. *nepalensis* (DC.) Hook.f. >> <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/cnicus-wallichii-var-nepalensis-dc-hookf> >> ) >> >> *Flora of China*: >> *Cirsium verutum >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200023700>* (D. >> Don) Sprengel >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200023700> >> syn: *Cnicus verutus* D. Don, Prodr. Fl. Nepal. 167. 1825; *Cirsium >> involucratum* Candolle, nom. illeg. superfl. (2900-3900 m.) >> *Cirsium argyracanthum >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242313045>* >> Candolle >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242313045> >> syn: *Cirsium tibeticum* Kitamura; *Cnicus argyracanthus* (Candolle) C. >> B. Clarke (2100-3700 m.) >> >> Annotated checklist of the flowering plants of Nepal >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=242313045> >> (*Cirsium verutum* (D. Don) Spreng. with *Cirsium* *argyracanthum* DC. >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=242313045> >> , *Cirsium* *involucratum* DC. >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=242313091> >> , *Cnicus* *argyracanthus* (DC.) C. B. Clarke >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=110&taxon_id=242421458> as >> syn.) (750-2200 m) >> >> >> From the above analysis, I feel most our specimens from lower elevation >> may be of *Cnicus argyracanthus* (DC.) C.B.Clarke >> <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/cnicus-argyracanthus-dc-cbclarke> >> >> Hi, Singh ji, >> If you agree with my analysis above, I will resurface old threads at Cirsium >> verutum <https://efloraofindia.com/2011/02/15/cirsium-verutum/> with >> correct identification. >> -- >> With regards, >> J.M.Garg >> > -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CA%2BiuSFCa4_1dc2Qy4A%2BMJFVgFzpmZFaOMAj6yHGYYOhBm%2B%3DfKg%40mail.gmail.com.
