Any further discussions on this issue? https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https%3A%2F%2Fivh.bsi.gov.in%2Fphanerogams-Details%2Fen%3Flink%3DMH00001112%26column%3DszBarcode&ved=0CBoQjhxqFwoTCNDmmpy6gZIDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAI&opi=89978449 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https%3A%2F%2Fivh.bsi.gov.in%2Fphanerogams-Details%2Fen%3Flink%3DMH00001114%26column%3DszBarcode&ved=0CBoQjhxqFwoTCKDblfS6gZIDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAj&opi=89978449 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F282182721_Notes_on_Phyllanthus_narayanaswamii_Gamble_Euphorbiaceae_and_Dimeria_lawsonii_Hookf_Fischer_Poaceae_-_from_the_state_of_Tamil_Nadu&ved=0CBoQjhxqFwoTCOjpwJm7gZIDFQAAAAAdAAAAABBB&opi=89978449 https://efloraofindia.com/2021/03/10/phyllanthus-narayanswamii/ https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/South-Indian%2520Gooseberry.html&ved=2ahUKEwjG9dW0u4GSAxW6SmwGHX6MO3kQh-wKegQIHBAE&usg=AOvVaw1gJr5Rwoa1BTwqCKXoeCRp
Thank you Saroj Kasaju ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Saroj Kumar Kasaju <[email protected]> Date: Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 3:33:14 PM UTC+5:45 Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:438737] Phyllanthus rangachariarii Murugan, Kabeer & G.V.S.Murthy submission AS27 December 22 To: ashutoshsharma11sn <[email protected]>, tchakrab <[email protected]> Cc: JM Garg <[email protected]>, efloraofindia <[email protected]> That would be a great news Tapas Da! Thank you Saroj Kasaju On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 at 3:31 pm, Tapas Chakrabarty <[email protected]> wrote: May be a new species in the making. On Sat, 31 Dec 2022, 11:38 J.M. Garg, <[email protected]> wrote: I think Tapas ji may be able to resolve this issue. On Sun, 25 Dec 2022 at 14:22, Saroj Kasaju <[email protected]> wrote: Images from https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282182721_Notes_on_Phyllanthus_narayanaswamii_Gamble_Euphorbiaceae_and_Dimeria_lawsonii_Hookf_Fischer_Poaceae_-_from_the_state_of_Tamil_Nadu loks different compared to Ashutosh Ji's images ! Thank you. Saroj Kasaju On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 1:39 PM J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: Hi, Tapas ji, What do you say? Why images posted by Ashutosh ji look so thick. Why images of Phyllanthus narayanswamii look different as per https://efloraofindia.com/2021/03/10/phyllanthus-narayanswamii/ https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:354846-1 http://flora-peninsula-indica.ces.iisc.ac.in/herbsheet.php?id=3940&cat=7 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282182721_Notes_on_Phyllanthus_narayanaswamii_Gamble_Euphorbiaceae_and_Dimeria_lawsonii_Hookf_Fischer_Poaceae_-_from_the_state_of_Tamil_Nadu On Sun, 25 Dec 2022 at 13:09, ashutoshsharma11sn <[email protected]> wrote: Dear Garg ji, This is only *Phyllanthus narayanswamii* Gamble, there should not be any doubts about its identity. The only doubt we have is about its status as a species (as discussed with Dr. Tapas sir) as it is close to* P. gardnerianus* and *P. simplex *but this can be only resolved after molecular studies. There is absolutely no chances of my plant being *P. macraei*. I think you may be are confused because of the misidentified plant images posted on Flora of Peninsular India Website. If you will closely check with the gbif specimens its perfectly matching along with illustration showing thickened recurved leaf margins on the herbarium sheet https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/912222572 Thanks and regards Ashutosh Sharma On Sunday, 25 December, 2022 at 12:52:03 pm UTC+5:30 JM Garg wrote: Any more thoughts, Ashutosh ji? On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 at 21:39, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: It still seems a mystery to me. On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 at 17:09, Tapas Chakrabarty <[email protected]> wrote: The image marked as A is *Phyllanthus macraei *Mull.Arg., now called *Cathetus rheedei *(Wight) R.W. Bouman. The image marked as B is *Phyllanthus stylosus *Griff. (syn. *P. griffithii *Mull.Arg.), now known as *Cathetus stylosus *(Griff.) R.W. Bouman The image marked as C is *Phyllanthus gageanus *(Gamble) M.Mohanan, now known as *Nymphanthus gageanus *(Gamble) R.W. Bouman ex Chakrab. & N.P. Balakr. The image marked as D is the lectotype of *Phyllanthus roeperianus *Wall. ex Mull.Arg., now known as *Cathetus roeperianus *(Wall. ex Mull.Arg.) Chakrab. & N.P. Balakr. With regards, Tapas On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 4:26 PM Tapas Chakrabarty <[email protected]> wrote: This is not at all P. macraei. On Sun, 18 Dec 2022, 16:24 J.M. Garg, <[email protected]> wrote: Hi, Tapas ji, What about its id as *Phyllanthus macraei* as per GBIF <https://www.gbif.org/species/5382353> specimen <https://www.gbif.org/tools/zoom/simple.html?src=//api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/https%3A%2F%2Fmedialib.naturalis.nl%2Ffile%2Fid%2FU.1472314%2Fformat%2Flarge> and images at https://efloraofindia.com/2011/04/09/phyllanthus-macraei/ ? On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 at 16:11, Tapas Chakrabarty <[email protected]> wrote: Two persons, one from Delhi University and the other from IISC Bangalore had contacted me for initial identifications of their specimens for initiating molecular studies. Unfortunately none of them have published their findings yet. One person published a new species, P. palakondensis. The other person from Delhi shared me images from three localities of TN and AP and asked me to name them. I found that the supposed morphological differences between P. gardnerianus and P. narayanswamii are not standing good due to presence of intermediate plants (images). However, P. simplex stands separate for its much narrower and thinner leaves and presence of bisexual cymules, absent in the other two. Meanwhile Bouman et al. (2022) recognized these species as distinct under the genus Cathetus. They had not studied DNA samples of P. narayanswamii. In concusion, in my opinion, morphologically P. naraynswamii is same as P. gardnerianus but different from P. simplex. I hope molecular data and field observations will eventually clarify the situation. With regards, Tapas On Sun, 18 Dec 2022, 15:48 J.M. Garg, <[email protected]> wrote: Forwarding again for Id assistance please. Some earlier relevant feedback: This is not at all P. rangachariarii. Just now I noticed that the male sepals are 6. The characters of the plant point to very close alliance to Phyllanthus clarkei in almost all characters. But I have some doubts because P. clarkei in not known from peninsular India so far and the leaves here are stiffly coriaceous. The glands in male flowers appear to be 6 instead of 3. So, please study your plant very carefully once again and compare with P. clarkei (now called Cathetus clarkei). With regards, Tapas Even closer to P. gardnerianus but leaves sessile and thickly coriaceous.- from Tapas ji Thanks for pointing the mistake in id. You are absolutely correct it can't be *Phyllanthus rangachariarii* owing to the characters you mentioned i.e. 6 perianth and glands in male flowers instead of 4 in *P. rangachariarii*). Additionally my plant is much smaller is height not taller than 2 feets while *P. rangachariarii* is a much bigger shrub upto 2 metre tall. I also checked type material images available on BSI virtual herbarium, confirming the same. https://ivh.bsi.gov.in/phanerogams/en?search_bar=Phyllanthus+rangachariarii&selection=Scientific_Name With best regards Ashutosh Sharma This must be *Phyllanthus narayanswamii* Gamble Under shrub upto 2 metre tall. Leaves alternative,sessile, elliptic coriaceous with thickened recurved margins. Perianth lobes 6 with 6 small glands in male flowers. Fruit capsule globose with verrucose glands. All these characters are matching with *Phyllanthus narayanswamii *Gamble So our plant is *Phyllanthus narayanswamii* Gamble, which is already reported from the Agasthyamala Biosphere Reserve where I have clicked this plant. Tapas sir I hope the identity is correct now! With best regards Ashutosh Sharma Syn. of *Phyllanthus virgatus *G.Forst. ? ? Looks different from images at http://flora-peninsula-indica.ces.iisc.ac.in/herbsheet.php?id=3940&cat=7 ! Now , *Cathetus virgatus* (G.Forst.) R.W.Bouman ?? Please compare with *Phyllanthus macraei *Müll.Arg. . Now: *Cathetus rheedei* (Wight) R.W.Bouman https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flowersofindia.net%2Fcatalog%2Fslides%2FMacrae%27s%2520Leaf-Flower.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flowersofindia.net%2Fcatalog%2Fslides%2FMacrae%2527s%2520Leaf-Flower.html&tbnid=y_CcsFWbZQlm0M&vet=12ahUKEwiMqv75s_P7AhVMhNgFHTQvB68QMygAegQIARBT..i&docid=ic-GNIA7lTEb8M&w=600&h=449&q=Phyllanthus%20macraei&client=safari&ved=2ahUKEwiMqv75s_P7AhVMhNgFHTQvB68QMygAegQIARBT Thank you. Saroj Kasaju Someone recently united P. narayanswamii under P. virgatus but kept P. gardnerianus distinct. Bouman et al. (2022) maintained all as distinct. I am fully confused here. P. virgatus is a Pacific species while P. simplex is Asian. Someone recently informed me that P. narayanswsmii is distinct from P. gardnerianus by habit, habitat and DNA data. My studies based on specimens and images indicate that narayanswamii and gardnerianus should be merged but considering the confusions, I will not go for any taxonomic changes. Let someone clarify these 3 species with field data combined with DNA studies. With regards, Tapas Thanks for your valuable comments Tapas sir. I agree with your views and meanwhile someone clarify these 3 species based on field data combined with DNA/molecular studies, Garg ji in my opinion we should keep it as a separate species on our website under page *Phyllanthus narayanswamii* Gamble. Please note than Verwijs *et al.* 2019 while synonymizing P. *narayanswamii* under *P. virgatus* have also mentioned some difference "The nervature of the leaves on the type of *P. narayanswamii* differs a little bit from other specimens of* P. virgatus *in the prominent nervature on the lower side of the leaf blade". Also it is notable that when the publication of Verwijs *et al. *came in October 2019, at around same time (just two months before in August) came another publication in Phytotaxa entitled "Taxonomic and habitat update to *Phyllanthus narayanswamii *(Phyllanthaceae): an endemic and endangered species from southern India" which is not referred in the publication of Verwijs *et al. *because as I mentioned earlier they got published round same time*.* So before this publication only little data was available about *P. narayanswamii* with no any images, so who knows if the publication on *P. narayanswamii* taxonomic and habitat update would have came earlier, Verwijs *et al. m*ay have retained the distinct species status of *P. narayanswamii* as they retained the status of *P. gardnerianus* and *P. tararae. *They have also mentioned in their paper abstract that "The species complex around *Phyllanthus virgatus* remains taxonomically difficult" and we are suffering from the same thing here... Thanks and regards Ashutosh Sharma ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: *Ashutosh Sharma* <[email protected]> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2022 at 12:35 Subject: [efloraofindia:438048] Phyllanthus rangachariarii Murugan, Kabeer & G.V.S.Murthy submission AS27 December 22 To: indiantreepix <[email protected]> Dear members, Here's a new addition to eFloraofIndia website. *Phyllanthus rangachariari*i Murugan, Kabeer & G.V.S.Murthy Family - Phyllanthaceae This rare species is narrow endemic to Agasthyamala Biosphere Reserve, Tamil Nadu Photographed in Kanyakumari district, Tamil Nadu In November 2022 With best regards Ashutosh Sharma -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CADkfUKt28TAcaaX%3DCzaMzMYwZe6ugus_wLcj0DPvT71on6%2Brug%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CADkfUKt28TAcaaX%3DCzaMzMYwZe6ugus_wLcj0DPvT71on6%2Brug%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> . -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/2bd5e954-fce4-4f30-9df4-30b2b7551419n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/2bd5e954-fce4-4f30-9df4-30b2b7551419n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> . -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CA%2BiuSFB7LkbvEtfTMguXZofMXmm%2BoOmBfXxCtMAzpbkiVjXNKg%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CA%2BiuSFB7LkbvEtfTMguXZofMXmm%2BoOmBfXxCtMAzpbkiVjXNKg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CAEf%3DytRBkk3Wr23bns_YM1qxPbOxa%3DKR00af%3DbxsU%2BJDVr3gNg%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CAEf%3DytRBkk3Wr23bns_YM1qxPbOxa%3DKR00af%3DbxsU%2BJDVr3gNg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> . -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- Thank you. Saroj Kasaju -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/0aebea16-9721-4ee7-b218-56c61e9cd1dcn%40googlegroups.com.
