Dear Muthu Yes, I also think that just because of dryness the tip of these plants do get constricted and at the same time, the wings on the stem get constricted as well. But there are some taxa in Euphorbia and others too, in which such characters are genotypic. Hope you understand my point there. Yes the plant was not E. royleana. As I said before, I completely forgot about E. neriifolia. Euphorbia is very complicated, jut put together Euphorbia thymifolia and Euphorbia cotinifolia and without flowers and latex, you dont find anything common!! Regards Pankaj
On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Muthu Karthick <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes Pankajji, the environmental factors might play a role in the morphology > of this genus. From Singhji's statement and Rashidaji's pictures, its clear > that this *Euphorbia antiquorum* have much variations. However the plant > does not matches with *E.royleana*. What I had posted are young and old > plants of the same species. > Many thanks Pankajji, Singhji and Rashidaji for your informative links and > inputs. > > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 6:15 PM, Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Thanks for sharing the pic and link. I understood what you meant. I just >> imagine if those contractions and swelling are due to environmental factors >> or that is a consistent character of this taxa? because that character is >> also evident in image of the Lectotype. Undoubtedly Euphorbias are >> complicated!! >> Pankaj >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Here is my photograph where you can see both young and old branches in >>> the same plant. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>> Retired Associate Professor >>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Pankaj ji >>>> Perhaps this image should clarify what I meant by straight and spirally >>>> running wings. E. tortilis has spirally running and E. antiquorum straight. >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.aridlands.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=2860&osCsid=gm3v4gonrocedtfv9d3c9kqnn4 >>>> >>>> >>>> <http://www.aridlands.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=2860&osCsid=gm3v4gonrocedtfv9d3c9kqnn4>If >>>> you look carefully the type specimen cited by you also has straight wings. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Pankaj Kumar >>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks for the detail. I totally forgot about neriifolia. >>>>> If you look at the second group of pics shared by Mr. Muthu, I think >>>>> there are two species. Secondly, in the lectotype, the wings are not >>>>> straight. I have seen both of these plants myself in gardens, and I always >>>>> thought one of them to be hybrid. But you are more experienced so you must >>>>> be having a better idea. >>>>> Thanks again. >>>>> Regards >>>>> Pankaj >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Gurcharan Singh >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Muthu ji >>>>>> Your two sets of plants seem to be the same E. antiquorum , only the >>>>>> matter of older and younger branches: All have distinctly 3-winged stems >>>>>> with straight wings. >>>>>> >>>>>> Rashida ji your first three plants are E. antiquorum without any >>>>>> doubt, but there is no reason to confuse the fourth photograph. It is >>>>>> without any wings and with spines which are spirally arranged. It should >>>>>> be >>>>>> E. neriifolia. This key from Flora of China should help in separating >>>>>> often >>>>>> confused species >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 4 >>>>>> (3)<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=112355#KEY-1-3> >>>>>> Stems >>>>>> ± terete, leaves inserted on spirally arranged tubercles, spine shield >>>>>> widely separated. 29 *E. >>>>>> neriifolia*<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242321485> >>>>>> +Stems winged or ribbed, leaves arranged along ribs, spines shields >>>>>> often ± contiguous >>>>>> (5)<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=112355#KEY-1-5> >>>>>> 5 >>>>>> (4)<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=112355#KEY-1-4> >>>>>> Stem >>>>>> 3(or 4)-winged, wings thin and irregularly dentate, 1-2 cm wide. 30 >>>>>> *E. >>>>>> antiquorum*<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=220005106>+Stem >>>>>> 5-7-angular, angles impressed and flat, irregularly repand-dentate. >>>>>> >>>>>> 31 *E. >>>>>> royleana<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242321511> >>>>>> * >>>>>> * >>>>>> * >>>>>> *<http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242321511> >>>>>> ** >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>> * >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Pankaj Kumar <[email protected] >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Just wanted to add. Euphorbia is a very big group and one most >>>>>>> interesting thing is, the genus Euphorbia has two type species, >>>>>>> Euphorbia antiquorum and Euphirbia serrata. I never heard a genus >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> two types before. If anyone else knows then please do add to our >>>>>>> information. >>>>>>> Kew has a list of around over 5000 names of which only ~2000 names >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> accepted. That itself depicts the taxonomic complications here. >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> Pankaj >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Pankaj Kumar < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> > Dear Muthu >>>>>>> > Here is the lectotype of Euphorbia antiquorum L. >>>>>>> > Lectotype : Herb. Clifford: 196, Euphorbia 1 (BM-000628669) >>>>>>> > Designated by: Wijnands in Bot. Commelins : 97 (1983) >>>>>>> > You can clearly make out which is the real Euphorbia antiquorum. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > There is another species called Euphorbia royleana. Kindly check >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> > plant with that description. I am not sure if this plant is found >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> > South India but it is supposed to be widespread from Pakistan to >>>>>>> > Taiwan. I assume I have seen it in Uttarakhand as well as >>>>>>> Rajasthan. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Regards >>>>>>> > Pankaj >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Dr Pankaj Kumar >>>>>>> > <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>> >> From: Muthu Karthick <[email protected]> >>>>>>> >> Date: Feb 15, 12:08 pm >>>>>>> >> Subject: thorny Euphorbia sp. >>>>>>> >> To: efloraofindia >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Dear all, >>>>>>> >> These plants are from the same locality. Kindly excuse me for >>>>>>> mixing >>>>>>> >> two >>>>>>> >> species(?) in the same post. Please guide me in this morphology of >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> >> Euphorbia* spp. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> The previous plant posted have straight grooves and not that of >>>>>>> *E. >>>>>>> >> antiquorum*. Is this any physical variation or totally the species >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> >> different? >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Muthu Karthick < >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>> >>> Thank you all, and Pardeshiji cleared my doubt on inflorescence >>>>>>> colour. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Usha Desai < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>> E. antqourum....nice picture of Praying mantis in the last >>>>>>> picture,preying >>>>>>> >>>> for prey[?] >>>>>>> >>>> Thanks for sharing.E antquorum is flowering all over Mumbai. >>>>>>> >>>> Usha Desai >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>> On 1 February 2011 20:11, tanay bose <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>>> *Euphorbia antiquorum* >>>>>>> >>>>> ***Tanay >>>>>>> >>>>> * >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 6:18 AM, Pardeshi S. < >>>>>>> [email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>> the young inflorescence appears green. once the ivary is >>>>>>> formed it >>>>>>> >>>>>> would impart the reddish/ purplish tone. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> >>>>>> Satish Pardeshi >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 1, 4:31 pm, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>> > Muthu ji >>>>>>> >>>>>> > I would go with E. antiquurum, because the angles are >>>>>>> distinctly >>>>>>> >>>>>> 3-winged, >>>>>>> >>>>>> > the wings are running almost straight. In E. tortilis the >>>>>>> angles are >>>>>>> >>>>>> not >>>>>>> >>>>>> > that promently winged, they are lobulate with stout paired >>>>>>> spines on >>>>>>> >>>>>> lobes, >>>>>>> >>>>>> > and most importantly the angles are spirally twisted like we >>>>>>> have in >>>>>>> >>>>>> E. >>>>>>> >>>>>> > neriifolia where of course the angles are not that >>>>>>> prominents, and >>>>>>> >>>>>> there are >>>>>>> >>>>>> > 5 spiral rows. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>> > -- >>>>>>> >>>>>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>> >>>>>> > Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>> >>>>>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>> >>>>>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>> >>>>>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>> > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Muthu Karthick < >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > Dear all, >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > descriptions match this thorny shrub as *Euphorbia >>>>>>> antiquorum*. I >>>>>>> >>>>>> suspect >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > this to be a different species owing to the colour of >>>>>>> flowers. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Please >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > help to solve this. >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > Could this be *E. tortilis*? >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > Location: Sathyamangalam wls; 300 msl >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > Date: 15 Dec 2010 >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > -- >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > Muthu Karthick, N >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > Junior Research Fellow >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > Care Earth Trust >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > #15, second main road, >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > Thillai ganga nagar, >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > Chennai - 600 061 >>>>>>> >>>>>> > > Mob: 09626833911 >>>>>>> >>>>>> > >www.careearthtrust.org >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>> *Tanay Bose* >>>>>>> >>>>> Research Assistant & Teaching Assistant. >>>>>>> >>>>> Department of Botany. >>>>>>> >>>>> University of British Columbia . >>>>>>> >>>>> 3529-6270 University Blvd. >>>>>>> >>>>> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 (Canada) >>>>>>> >>>>> Phone: 778-323-4036 (Mobile) >>>>>>> >>>>> 604-822-2019 (Lab) >>>>>>> >>>>> 604-822-6089 (Fax) >>>>>>> >>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>> *Webpages:* >>>>>>> >>>>>http://www.botany.ubc.ca/people/mberbee.html >>>>>>> >>>>>http://www.botany.ubc.ca/people/gradstud.html >>>>>>> >>>>>https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>> -- >>>>>>> >>> Muthu Karthick, N >>>>>>> >>> Junior Research Fellow >>>>>>> >>> Care Earth Trust >>>>>>> >>> #15, second main road, >>>>>>> >>> Thillai ganga nagar, >>>>>>> >>> Chennai - 600 061 >>>>>>> >>> Mob: 09626833911 >>>>>>> >>>www.careearthtrust.org >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> -- >>>>>>> >> Muthu Karthick, N >>>>>>> >> Care Earth Trust >>>>>>> >> #15, second main road, >>>>>>> >> Thillai ganga nagar, >>>>>>> >> Chennai - 600 061 >>>>>>> >> Mob: 0091 96268 33911www.careearthtrust.org >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> 360.gif >>>>>>> >> < 1KViewDownload >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> E antiquorum (3).jpg >>>>>>> >> 193KViewDownload >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> a 599.jpg >>>>>>> >> 142KViewDownload >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> a 600.jpg >>>>>>> >> 149KViewDownload >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> b 235.jpg >>>>>>> >> 193KViewDownload >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> b 236.jpg >>>>>>> >> 237KViewDownload >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> b 237.jpg >>>>>>> >> 179KViewDownload >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> E antiquorum.jpg >>>>>>> >> 206KViewDownload >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> E antiquorum (1).jpg >>>>>>> >> 212KViewDownload >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> E antiquorum (2).jpg >>>>>>> >> 210KViewDownload >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>> > *********************************************** >>>>>>> > "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) >>>>>>> > Research Associate >>>>>>> > Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project >>>>>>> > Department of Habitat Ecology >>>>>>> > Wildlife Institute of India >>>>>>> > Post Box # 18 >>>>>>> > Dehradun - 248001, India >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *********************************************** >>>>>>> "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) >>>>>>> Research Associate >>>>>>> Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project >>>>>>> Department of Habitat Ecology >>>>>>> Wildlife Institute of India >>>>>>> Post Box # 18 >>>>>>> Dehradun - 248001, India >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> *********************************************** >>>>> "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) >>>>> Research Associate >>>>> Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project >>>>> Department of Habitat Ecology >>>>> Wildlife Institute of India >>>>> Post Box # 18 >>>>> Dehradun - 248001, India >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> *********************************************** >> "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" >> >> >> Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) >> Research Associate >> Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project >> Department of Habitat Ecology >> Wildlife Institute of India >> Post Box # 18 >> Dehradun - 248001, India >> > > > > -- > Muthu Karthick, N > Care Earth Trust > #15, second main road, > Thillai ganga nagar, > Chennai - 600 061 > Mob: 0091 96268 33911 > www.careearthtrust.org > > -- *********************************************** "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) Research Associate Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project Department of Habitat Ecology Wildlife Institute of India Post Box # 18 Dehradun - 248001, India
