... this makes some sense in context of not finding this species in any of the old texts (other than scientific). No dictionaries OR literature has any instances of *M. pubescens*, though a thorough native. In comparison, *M. tinctoria* and *M. citrifolia* are well discussed.
Regards. Dinesh On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > Some more evidence to support that Morinda tomentosa Heyne ex Roth and > Morinda tinctoria var. tomentosa Hook.f. are two different taxa (supporting > entries in KEW Plant List): > > http://www.globalspecies.org/ntaxa/1085299 > > <http://www.globalspecies.org/ntaxa/1085299> > http://www.globalspecies.org/ntaxa/1085287 > > <http://www.globalspecies.org/ntaxa/1085287>Morinda pubescens is not > listed at all, nor was it in Flora of British India, although supposed to > have been described from India in 1813. Perhaps its status has to be > investigated. > > > > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 2:00 PM, H S <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Sirji >> every thing is in mess if you see the work done by Kew Plant List in >> case of Morinda.. >> >> How can M. tomentosa can be syn. of M. citrifolia which has nothing to >> do with tomentose... i feel its a syn. of M. pubescens rather M. >> citrifolia. >> >> we need to dig out original descriptions given by original authors.. >> >> i feel Morinda tinctoria and M. pubescens are two distnct plant... >> here is nothing to do with M. citrifolia as it is exotic.. planted >> only in gardens... or for NONI... >> >> >> >> On 5/27/11, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Many thanks Gurcharan ji for digging into *Morinda* complex. >> > The situation seems to be in a kind of flux. >> > >> > With so much discussed, in my belief, Neha ji's plant is *Morinda >> > pubescens*... synonym of >> > *M. coreia*. >> > Regards. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected] >> >wrote: >> > >> >> Dear H S >> >> Perhaps you did not read my mail carefully >> >> >> >> I wrote (on the basis of KEW Plant List) that M. tomentosa Heyne ex >> Roth, >> >> 1821 is synonym of M. citrifolia L., 1753.....that should be fine with >> >> Principle of Priority >> >> >> >> I also wrote that on the basis of combinations cited by me M. tomentosa >> >> and >> >> M. tinctoria var. tomentosa are two different plants and latter is >> synonym >> >> of M. coreia (as per Kew List) >> >> >> >> If we have latest Database of 2010, citing earlier publications carries >> no >> >> meaning in final solution. >> >> >> >> Please read my mail analysis carefully and suggest if you have any >> >> improvements. >> >> >> >> I could not understand what you wanted to convey "Morinda tinctoria is >> not >> >> glabrous either tomentose... which is >> >> commonly found in Sanjay Gandhi National Park..." >> >> >> >> Leaves shining and glabrous on both >> >> surfaces....................................Morinda citrifolia >> >> Leaves tomentose on both >> >> surfaces..................................................Morinda >> coreia >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> >> Retired Associate Professor >> >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> >> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 11:03 AM, H S <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Morinda tinctoria is not glabrous either tomentose... which is >> >>> commonly found in Sanjay Gandhi National Park... though everyone merge >> >>> M. tinctoria and M. pubescens.. >> >>> >> >>> M. tomentosa is in 1821 is earlier than M. coeria Buch.-Ham. is in >> >>> 1822 . and M. tinctoria Roxb. is later in 1832. >> >>> >> >>> Hook.f. was first to change the rank.. infact he made many other var. >> >>> in genus M. tinctoria >> >>> >> >>> According to Blatter, M. citrifolia is introduce species to India... >> >>> >> >>> I have seen M. citrifolia only in Cultivation... >> >>> >> >>> On 5/27/11, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> > Perhaps the easiest difference between the two species >> >>> > >> >>> > Leaves shining and glabrous on both >> >>> > surfaces....................................Morinda citrifolia >> >>> > Leaves tomentose on both >> >>> > surfaces..................................................Morinda >> >>> > coreia >> >>> > >> >>> > In light of this above plant should be M. coreia >> >>> > >> >>> > -- >> >>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> >>> > Retired Associate Professor >> >>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> >>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> >>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> >>> > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> >>> > >> >>> > On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 8:51 AM, Gurcharan Singh < >> [email protected]> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> >> Dear Neil ji and Dinesh ji >> >>> >> >> >>> >> The link and discussion cited by Neil ji was dated in 2009, and lot >> >>> >> has >> >>> >> changed since the publication of KEW Plant List in 2010. It still >> >>> contains >> >>> >> some ambiguities but hope we will have to live with these for at >> least >> >>> 2-3 >> >>> >> years more till things are sorted out. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> The name Morinda pubescens Sm., according to Kew Plant List is >> >>> >> unplaced >> >>> >> name, yet to be resolved >> >>> >> >> >>> >> In Flora of British India, Sir J D Hooker, while naming the >> variety >> >>> >> M. >> >>> >> tinctoria var. tomentosa Hook.f. did cite M. tomentosa Heyne in >> Roth >> >>> as >> >>> >> the >> >>> >> first synonym, but perhaps the two plants are different (Hooker >> also >> >>> gave >> >>> >> differentiating characters as leaves tomentose on both surfaces, >> >>> peduncles >> >>> >> leaf-opposed) and that is why the entry at Kew Plant List as well >> >>> >> TROPICOS >> >>> >> (and Fernandez, Trees of Mumbai, page 174, 1999--though I have not >> >>> >> seen >> >>> >> this) lists the variety as tomentosa Hook.f and not (Heyne ex Roth) >> >>> >> Hook.f., >> >>> >> similarly Fernandez while transferring this to species to *M. >> coreia* >> >>> >> Buch.-Ham., >> >>> >> names it as *M. coreia* Buch.-Ham. var. *tomentosa *(Hook.f.) >> >>> >> Fernandez >> >>> >> and not *M. coreia* Buch.-Ham. var. tomentosa (Heyne ex Roth) >> >>> Fernandez. >> >>> >> ......................This taxon (excluding M. tomentosa Hehne ex >> >>> >> Roth) >> >>> is >> >>> >> according to KEW Plant List synonym of M. *M. coreia* Buch.-Ham. In >> >>> fact >> >>> >> M. tinctoria Roxb. itself is synonym of *M. coreia* Buch.-Ham >> >>> >> >> >>> >> http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-129800 >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> The fact that two (*M. tinctoria* var. *tomentosa* Hook.f. and M. >> >>> >> tomentosa Heyne ex Roth) are different is supported by the fact >> that >> >>> *M. >> >>> >> tomentosa* Heyne ex Roth is now considered as synonym of *M. >> >>> citrifolia*L. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-129953 >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Perhaps both species (M. coreia and M. citrifolia) occur in India >> and >> >>> >> a >> >>> >> reliable recent key should help. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> -- >> >>> >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> >>> >> Retired Associate Professor >> >>> >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> >>> >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> >>> >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> >>> >> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:23 AM, Neil Soares >> >>> >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> >> >> >>> >>> Hi, >> >>> >>> Thought we had settled this issue. Please refer to this link: >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >> https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix/browse_thread/thread/5927bedae08f10f4/d1f9f53b736d543e?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=Morinda+tomentosa+Neil+Soares#d1f9f53b736d543e >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Regards, >> >>> >>> Neil Soares. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> --- On *Thu, 5/26/11, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]>* >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> From: Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:70406] Re: Please identify this tree >> >>> >>> To: "Gurcharan Singh" <[email protected]> >> >>> >>> Cc: "efloraofindia" <[email protected]> >> >>> >>> Date: Thursday, May 26, 2011, 11:36 PM >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Gurcharan ji ... *OR* did you imply *M. pubescens* is J. E. Sm is >> now >> >>> >>> reduced to synonmy of *M. coreia* Buch.-Ham. ? >> >>> >>> Regards. >> >>> >>> Dinesh >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Dinesh Valke >> >>> >>> <[email protected]< >> >>> http://us.mc339.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> >> >>> >>> > wrote: >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Gurcharan ji, >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> 1) *M. tinctoria Roxb. var tomentosa (Heyne ex Roth.) Hook. f*. >> ... >> >>> >>> synonym of *M. pubescens* J. E. Sm >> >>> >>> 2) *M. tinctoria var. tomentosa Hook.f.* ... renamed as *M. >> coreia* >> >>> var. >> >>> >>> *tomentosa* (Hook. f.) R.R.Fernandez ... synonym of *M. >> >>> coreia*Buch.-Ham. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Wanting to clear my confusion ... hope these: 1) and 2) are >> distinct. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Regards. >> >>> >>> Dinesh >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 7:22 AM, Gurcharan Singh >> >>> >>> <[email protected]< >> >>> http://us.mc339.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> >> >>> >>> > wrote: >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> According to Kew Plant List Morinda tinctoria var. tomentosa >> Hook.f. >> >>> was >> >>> >>> renamed Morinda coreia var. >> >>> >>> tomentosa<http://www.tropicos.org/Name/100225909> (Hook. >> >>> >>> f.) R.R.Fernandez (TROPICOS information) in Trees of Mumbai 174, >> >>> 1999. >> >>> >>> This >> >>> >>> is now considered as synonym of *Morinda* *coreia* Buch.-Ham. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-129800 >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> -- >> >>> >>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> >>> >>> Retired Associate Professor >> >>> >>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> >>> >>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> >>> >>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> >>> >>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 11:31 PM, H S <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> I think M. tinctoria Roxb. var tomentosa (Heyne ex Roth.) Hook. f. >> is >> >>> syn >> >>> >>> of M. pubescens J. E. Sm. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> -- >> >>> >>> - H.S. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere >> >>> heart >> >>> >>> of >> >>> >>> stone >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> - H.S. >> >>> >> >>> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere >> heart >> >>> of >> >>> stone >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> -- >> - H.S. >> >> A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart of >> stone >> > > > >
