I originally sent this to Stephen instead of the list by mistake. Ann
> It is true that Tom Frame has had a change of mind about whether or not the > war on Iraq was a just war. He based his first conclusion on the information > from government that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Now that that has > been proved false he has recognised that if the initial information is > wrong, then the conclusion is wrong. The problem is that he has not had a > change of mind about his understanding of what constitutes a just war and > how to apply the criteria. The West Australian Council of Churches organised > a debate between Tom Frame and myself on Palm Sunday. I don't think it is in > his written address, but he said during his initial speech that just war > theory does not include a presumption against violence. I have mentioned > this to several people with some knowledge of just war theory, and they > have all had the same reaction as me to that comment: of course just war > theory has a presumption against violence - it requires that war be a last > resort. That might not have been the case in the early days of just war > theory, but it is the case in contemporary understanding. Two other things > dismay be about Tom Frame, after his "change of mind". He seems oblivious to > the fact that Australian military doctrine recognises that modern warfare > kills more civilians than troops, and that civilised nations therefore have > to see war as a last resort (this is in Australian Air Force doctrine). He > also seems oblivious to the Churches' Decade to Overcome Violence (DOV). One > of the goals of the Churches' Decade to Overcome Violence is that we > challenge theological justification for violence. In fact, in his response > to my presentation in Perth, he rejected the DOV principles as unrealistic > on account of human sin. I would have thought that human sin is precisely > the reason we should be extremely wary of any claim to a just war. Our > awareness of sin should lead us to be very circumspect about giving people > permission to be violent in our name. > In the Perth presentation I point out that just war theory has a (usually > unstated) assumption that those waging a just war have "clean hands" and are > acting with sincerity (ie words and actions coincide). > Tom Frame's speech in Perth and my powerpoint presentation are on the WA > synod web site at > http://www.justice.wa.uca.org.au/default.asp?ACT=24&id=0&dir=Ix92wb9ZjbqH&ca > t=APEirfnrSabd (or go to social justice and then to downloads). Both my > presentation and the script are on the unitingcarenswact web site. My > powerpoint presentation introducing the DOV at the recent social justice > expo is at http:// unitingcarenswact.org.au . The NCCA and WCC websites > have a whole range of resources about DOV. > Ann > (Rev. Dr.) Ann Wansbrough > UnitingCare NSW.ACT > PO Box A 2178 Sydney South 1235 > Phone (61) (02) 8267 4280 Fax (61) (02) 9267 4842 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Ellis, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "'Rodd Clarkson'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 5:16 PM > Subject: Re: sec: unclassified - News Article - The Ethics of Torture > > > > You see that Bishop Tom has had a change of mind over whether Iraq was > > that just. > > > > Ellis, Peter wrote: > > > > >Ah, it's just war, Rodd. Or is that "just war", or Just War? > > > > > >We recently (24th April) had Just War Theory explained in some detail on > ABC > > >Radio National's "The National Interest" with (Rev.) Terry Lane > > >http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/natint/stories/s834732.htm, by of all > people, > > >Bishop Tom Frame, the Anglican Bishop to the Australian Defence Force. > > >http://www.anglican.org.au/defence/bishop.htm It appears that the > transcript > > >has now been removed, but I'd like to be proved wrong. > > > > > >There is also considerable discussion in this list's archives, from > several > > >years ago, about the desensitisation of youth by the computer games. > > > > > >Peter > > > ------------------------------------------------------ - You are subscribed to the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the message body 'unsubscribe insights-l' (ell, not one (1)) See: http://nsw.uca.org.au/insights-l-information.htm ------------------------------------------------------
