On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:17:50 +1000, you wrote:
>I've been interested in how one would address this construction of the >Australian's Paul Kelly: > >"Pell is detested because he favours a muscular Christianity, not the >limp-wristed social justice variety". >(http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10982762%255E12250,00.html) > > > >How does that measure with what > >Rob Bos wrote: > >> Young people do not want a namby-pamby easy gospel ... one of the >> clear voices against the right wing "Christian" sell-out in the US is >> Sojourners ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). They provide an organised >> alternative voice to the Christian right. Elenie Poulos (Assembly >> UnitingJustice) and I were wondering how to get up an Australian >> e-list like that. (It needs to be ecumenical or non-denominational, I >> suspect.) > > > >So is just "justice" namby pamby and limp-wristed or not? How come >injustice (or "opportunity" according to Blair and Latham) is "muscular"? > > >Rob Bos wrote: > >> Thanks, Trevor. Yep that's the challenge. Three reactions: >> 1. I was privileged to be asked to the do the Bible studies at the >> VicTas Synod recently. The surprising thing to me was that in the >> sermon and Bible studies where I was the most challenging, the most >> radically alternate to current social values, the most uncompromising >> I got the warmest response. (At the risk of blatant self-promotion >> they may be found at http://vic.uca.org.au, esp the one on Luke.) It >> seems to me that many people are ready for and excited by the tough >> challenge to discipleship. >> 2. Secondly, the most hope-filled gatherings I went to this year was >> the radical discipleship get-together of young people during the June >> long weekend (see Insights October, page 14). Young people do not want >> a namby-pamby easy gospel. >> 3. Thirdly, one of the clear voices against the right wing "Christian" >> sell-out in the US is Sojourners ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). They provide >> an organised alternative voice to the Christian right. Elenie Poulos >> (Assembly UnitingJustice) and I were wondering how to get up an >> Australian e-list like that. (It needs to be ecumenical or >> non-denominational, I suspect.) >> (Thanks, Ann, you are right. The question then is how do we >> communicate both the good news of total grace and the good news of >> total demand? Or in the old money, how do we hold together Jesus as >> Saviour [holistically] and Jesus as Lord [again holistically]? Maybe >> giving people what they want is not grace at all.) >> Rob Bos >> >> >> Trevor Mattiske wrote: >> >>> Rob wrote: >>> The wonder of the gospel is that this is actually good news as it >>> sets us free from ourselves for communion with God, other people and >>> creation. God transforms us, not because we are entitled, but when we >>> are not entitled. >>> >>> Ann wrote: >>> The problem for those of us who recognise that prosperity theology is >>> not the Gospel is that we often preach a message not very different, >>> by encouraging a sense of self-worth, but not balancing it with >>> concepts of discipleship, self-giving love, taking up our cross, etc. >>> >>> Trevor responds: >>> Jumping ahead a couple of steps in the thinking process, these >>> responses suggest that (IMO) the real problem confronting the Body of >>> Christ is not the pews full of greying heads, nor the arguments about >>> gay clergy, ministry of women etc etc. >>> >>> ISTM that the real problem for the Church is how to present a >>> believable message which is the complete reverse of the culture of >>> the day. How does the Church present messages like "take up your >>> cross and follow me" or "When Christ calls a man, he bids him come >>> and die" to a society which is bombarded from all directions by >>> messages of self-fulfillment, a society which is being filled with >>> expectations of entitlement? How does an apparently weakening Church >>> swim against such a tide, a tide powered by the major political and >>> commercial forces in society, a tide which is constantly reinforced >>> by a compliant (and self-interested) media? >>> >>> For me, a depressing thing about most recent election campaigns has >>> been the sameness of the messages from all sides, namely "Have we got >>> a deal for you", with the emphasis on the "you". Somewhere in all >>> that election rhetoric, was there a vision of a better Australia, a >>> fairer Australia, a more compassionate Australia, an Australian >>> community? Did I miss something in the 15 second sound bites? >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------ - You are >>> subscribed to the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To >>> unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the message >>> body 'unsubscribe insights-l' (ell, not one (1)) See: >>> http://nsw.uca.org.au/insights-l-information.htm >>> ------------------------------------------------------ >> Sue Bolton Sydney, Australia ------------------------------------------------------ - You are subscribed to the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the message body 'unsubscribe insights-l' (ell, not one (1)) See: http://nsw.uca.org.au/insights-l-information.htm ------------------------------------------------------
