On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 4:30 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf <ras...@lerdorf.com> wrote:
> On 05/11/2011 01:39 AM, dukeofgaming wrote: > >> The link doesn't work, but I'm assuming it is this one?: >> https://wiki.php.net/todo >> > > That was supposed to be wiki.php.net/rfc (iPad auto-correct messed it up) > > I see. I have actually read most RFCs, but I do feel something is meesing. Perhaps if RFCs were categorized by potential release in the wiki —or alternatively, an additional "Intented PHP version" field— then agreements coud get easier, because I don't see consistent PHP version information for RFCs that could lead to an actual roadmap. > I don't think we need to lower the participation bar further here. It > doesn't take very long to find a threaded version of the list if that is > what you think is holding people back. All the lists are here, > http://php.markmail.org/search/ for example. > But honestly, subscribing to a mailing list and watching it for a while > before participating is not too much to ask from people who want to > participate. > > > My suggestion for this —and it would be a rather disruptive one, I know— >> is to move the lists to Google Groups, or at least create one or two as >> an experiment, say: php-userland and php-dev. >> > > We have such a user list already. Many of them actually, but the main one > is php-general. Again, refer to the above link where you can see that > php-general gets way more traffic than the internals list, so there is no > lack of participation there. > > I wholeheartedly agree, but sometimes it is the small details that lead to dissuasion (e.g. having to look for the right/best mirror). In general I've found Google Groups mailing lists more approachable/usable. I see now that there are nice mirrors, but in general the mirror solution feels fragmented. Just my opinion here. > > BTW, Guilherme is an important stakeholder too, he has participated in >> Doctrine2 annotation-related work: >> > > Of course he is. But like I said, we need all the major stakeholders to > reach some sort of agreement on large efforts like this. How could we get them here?. I know there is no magical answer but if we do need them here something must be done, right? (e.g. make the RFC more appealing for technical debate?). > > > The way I see it, PHP has moved by inertia all these years, and it has >> worked, but I think there are measures that could be taken to lead the >> discussions towards a more productive path. For example, is there anyone >> at all that does some kind of moderation?, and I don't mean the coercive >> type, but the "hey guys, this seems off-topic, can you start this >> discussion on another email thread?" type of moderation. >> > > Of course. I've often sent private emails to people to politely suggest > they take things offline and others regularly step in as well. > But, is there such a role/responsibility/structure within the community?, and I'm really not talking about hierarchy or bureaucracy, just that I've seen it is important that there is someone that commits to such a role and not just leave it to other's good will. Best regards, David
