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"Bari, Naeem" wrote:
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> BEFORE YOU POST, search the faq at <http://java.apache.org/faq/>
> WHEN YOU POST, include all relevant version numbers, log files,
> and configuration files.  Don't make us guess your problem!!!
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Hmph. It appears that mindcraft used jserv 1.0 (they mention the
> version in the "mindcraft certification" section).

I did not notice that....silly me. Of course that will lose to a brand
spanking new product!

> I am pretty sure that jserv 1.0 is much, much slower than jserv 1.1

So am I.
 
> Also, $1500 per server for iPlanet? Try $35,000 (thats right, 35 *thousand*
> dollars) per cpu! Thats what iPlanet costs.
> so if you use a 4 cpu Sun e450, be prepared for a list price of
> $140,000 just for iplanet alone. I got the pricing from
> http://www.flashline.com/components/appservermatrix.jsp, BTW... a pretty
> nice site...


I read that price off of iPlanet's site...maybe I read it wrong. Here is
what the FAQ says:

"Q: How much does iPlanet Web Server, Enterprise Edition 4.1 cost?

A: iPlanet Web Server, Enterprise Edition 4.1 pricing is $1495 per CPU.
Existing customers upgrading from per server licenses receive 2 CPUs per
CPU upgraded. This change reflects an effort to better align pricing
across iPlanet products with customers' buying preferences, and with our
volume discount model."

I think you are talking about the application server and I am talking
about the web server. I believe they are using the web server version
and NOT the app server in the mindcraft benchmarks. 

I wonder if I can redo their tests with our servlets using WebBench...?

 
> You can also read www.infoworld.com to see their opinion of iPlanet.
> The bottom line: a great product, but not worth the price tag.
> 
> You are also comparing apples to oranges, a little bit. Full bodied
> Application Servers like iPlanet, WebSphere and their ilk provide a
> lot more services than jserv does. Read up on the J2EE specs to see
> why you would need one.

We don't need a full blown app server.
 
> My personal take is this:
> 
> Unless you are writing a huge industrial strength application that
> absolutely requires some pretty high end features, you are better
> off using jserv or tomcat.
> 
> In your particular case, where you have already written your app
> using jserv, this tells me that it probably doesn't need the advanced
> features of a full blow app server. So why spend the money and time
> on it?

I agree and this is a good point. I will make that point when I present
this.
 
> On a side note, I take anything from mindcraft with not a grain,
> but fistfulls of salt. I have seen several of their surveys that
> are quite ridiculous. AFAIK, they take money from vendors and design
> "benchmarks" that would favor the vendors. Like using jserv 1.0,
> for instance, knowing full well that jserv 1.1 would have made
> iPlanet look a lot less appealing.

I thought mindcraft was that sort of company. I remember someone else
telling me that before: they get paid by vendors to do benchmarks. It's
easy to spread FUD when you are up against Open Source software, also.
iPlanet's sell takes great pains to compare itself to Apache and point
out the "bad score" of Jserv/Stronghold.

Ben Ricker
Web Administrator
US-Rx, Inc.


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