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BEFORE YOU POST, search the faq at <http://java.apache.org/faq/>
WHEN YOU POST, include all relevant version numbers, log files,
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Oh also I forgot to mention in the last post that although I did not use some
benchmark to note the response times of the my servlets with iPlanet vs.
Apache/JServ I really really doubt that it was anywhere close to 4x faster on
iPlanet. Try 1.5x or may be 2x (stretching it with 2x)
Abid Farooqui
Abid Farooqui wrote:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> BEFORE YOU POST, search the faq at <http://java.apache.org/faq/>
> WHEN YOU POST, include all relevant version numbers, log files,
> and configuration files. Don't make us guess your problem!!!
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> First of all Naeem, your prices are wrong. You are looking at prices for
> iPlanet Application Server (Enterprise Edition) not iPlanet Webserver. The
> iPlanet Webserver natively handles servlets like the one mentioned in the
> original post (JDBC access to Oracle in a web app). The Application Server of
> course does a whole lot more including implementing J2EE etc. So $1500 for
> iPlanet Webserver is quite correct.
> I am using Apache/JSERV (1.1) combination on Windows2000 and also iPlanet
> Webserver on Windows2000 to run servlets that use Type 4 JDBC drivers and I
> have noticed that iPlanet Webserver is noticeably faster. Not to take anything
> at all away from JSERV because it has other advantages that iPlanet Webserver
> won't provide. Consider security for one. It is in general a bad idea to run
> the Webserver, Servlet Engine and the DataBase server all on the same machine.
> Most people put their webserver in the DMZ not protected by stringent FireWall
> rule sets. Now if iPlanet Webserver (which has a native servlet engine
> built-in) were in a DMZ it is easy to see how I could launch a simple DOS
> (Denial Of Service) attack on it and because of the inherent weaknesses in
> TCP/IP protocol take its TCP stack down quite easily. This means that now not
> only your webserver cannot service any further requests but also your servlet
> engine that is native to the webserver is gone. With Apache/JServ you can
> separate the webserver from the servlet engine. Apache may run in the DMZ but
> the servlet engine JSERV will run behind the firewall protected so that data
> can be submitted to the servlets only via the webserver. You can also have a
> bunch of webservers that have been load balanced in the DMZ and only one JSERV
> behind the FireWall. If for some reason (like via a DOS attack) one Apache
> Webserver does go down, the load balancing software or hardware can send the
> requests to the next Apache IP address and your service will remain up
> including your Servlet Engine (JSERV) and hopefully you are using intrusion
> detection FireWall packages out there that can protect JSERV or the Servlet
> Engine being accessed directly from the net somehow.
> Also I have not played around with TOMCAT yet so I could not tell you how its
> speed compares to iPlanet Webserver. I hope that it has increased compared to
> JSERV.
> In reply to the original post I would just say that you download the trial
> version of the iPlanet Webserver and install it and run your applications
> against it and see the performance for yourself.
> http://www.iplanet.com:80/downloads/download/index.html
> You might be prompted to register before you download evaluation software.
> Remember however that unlike Apache if you would like to use group controls
> etc. on iPlanet Webserver, you will need iPlanet Directory Server as well (LDAP
> server) which has to run on a different machine and has to have a domain. You
> cannot run the LDAP server on the same machine. If you use SSL and use things
> like Client Authentication via client browser certificates then again these
> certificates will have to be mapped to the directory entries in the LDAP
> server. One good thing about iPlanet Webserver is that you can easily setup SSL
> accelerator cards to be used with it (like Rainbow cards etc.). Trying to do
> that with Apache SSLEAY is a ...
> Sincerely,
> Abid Farooqui
>
> "Bari, Naeem" wrote:
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > BEFORE YOU POST, search the faq at <http://java.apache.org/faq/>
> > WHEN YOU POST, include all relevant version numbers, log files,
> > and configuration files. Don't make us guess your problem!!!
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Hmph. It appears that mindcraft used jserv 1.0 (they mention the
> > version in the "mindcraft certification" section).
> >
> > I am pretty sure that jserv 1.0 is much, much slower than jserv 1.1
> >
> > Also, $1500 per server for iPlanet? Try $35,000 (thats right, 35 *thousand*
> > dollars) per cpu! Thats what iPlanet costs.
> >
> > so if you use a 4 cpu Sun e450, be prepared for a list price of
> > $140,000 just for iplanet alone. I got the pricing from
> > http://www.flashline.com/components/appservermatrix.jsp, BTW... a pretty
> > nice site...
> >
> > You can also read www.infoworld.com to see their opinion of iPlanet.
> > The bottom line: a great product, but not worth the price tag.
> >
> > You are also comparing apples to oranges, a little bit. Full bodied
> > Application Servers like iPlanet, WebSphere and their ilk provide a
> > lot more services than jserv does. Read up on the J2EE specs to see
> > why you would need one.
> >
> > My personal take is this:
> >
> > Unless you are writing a huge industrial strength application that
> > absolutely requires some pretty high end features, you are better
> > off using jserv or tomcat.
> >
> > In your particular case, where you have already written your app
> > using jserv, this tells me that it probably doesn't need the advanced
> > features of a full blow app server. So why spend the money and time
> > on it?
> >
> > On a side note, I take anything from mindcraft with not a grain,
> > but fistfulls of salt. I have seen several of their surveys that
> > are quite ridiculous. AFAIK, they take money from vendors and design
> > "benchmarks" that would favor the vendors. Like using jserv 1.0,
> > for instance, knowing full well that jserv 1.1 would have made
> > iPlanet look a lot less appealing.
> >
> > Hope that helps,
> > naeem
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ben Ricker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 3:09 PM
> > > To: Java Apache Users
> > > Subject: Jserv vs. iPlanet
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > BEFORE YOU POST, search the faq at <http://java.apache.org/faq/>
> > > WHEN YOU POST, include all relevant version numbers, log files,
> > > and configuration files. Don't make us guess your problem!!!
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > I have a dilemma that I would like to open up for possible discussion.
> > >
> > > Right now, I am running Apache 1.3.12 with Jserv 1.1 and 1.1.2, both
> > > Sun's and Blackdown's JDK 1.2.2. We run a servlet based web app which
> > > accesses an Oracle database through JDBC.
> > >
> > > The question has arose: why aren't we using iPlanet? Now, my main
> > > argument is, of course, we would pay $1500 per server while
> > > right now we
> > > pay $0 per server (for the software). However, as our company
> > > grows, the
> > > money will start to flow. iPlanet's site
> > (http://www.iplanet.com) has a
> > whole bunch of reasons to switch to them. I can handle most of the
> > points but one point they make is hard to counter. They site benchmarks
> > from http://www.mindcraft.com which show that iPlanet beats
> > Jserv/Stronghold by factors of 4.
> >
> > I cannot say I udnerstand the methodology of the benchmarks (such as
> > "latency" as they term it). Can someone clue me in? Is there anyone who
> > see holes in their methodology? Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > Ben Ricker
> > Web Administrator
> > US-Rx, Inc.
> >
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