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BEFORE YOU POST, search the faq at <http://java.apache.org/faq/>
WHEN YOU POST, include all relevant version numbers, log files,
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First of all Naeem, your prices are wrong. You are looking at prices for
iPlanet Application Server (Enterprise Edition) not iPlanet Webserver. The
iPlanet Webserver natively handles servlets like the one mentioned in the
original post (JDBC access to Oracle in a web app). The Application Server of
course does a whole lot more including implementing J2EE etc. So $1500 for
iPlanet Webserver is quite correct.
I am using Apache/JSERV (1.1) combination on Windows2000 and also iPlanet
Webserver on Windows2000 to run servlets that use Type 4 JDBC drivers and I
have noticed that iPlanet Webserver is noticeably faster. Not to take anything
at all away from JSERV because it has other advantages that iPlanet Webserver
won't provide. Consider security for one. It is in general a bad idea to run
the Webserver, Servlet Engine and the DataBase server all on the same machine.
Most people put their webserver in the DMZ not protected by stringent FireWall
rule sets. Now if iPlanet Webserver (which has a native servlet engine
built-in) were in a DMZ it is easy to see how I could launch a simple DOS
(Denial Of Service) attack on it and because of the inherent weaknesses in
TCP/IP protocol take its TCP stack down quite easily. This means that now not
only your webserver cannot service any further requests but also your servlet
engine that is native to the webserver is gone. With Apache/JServ you can
separate the webserver from the servlet engine. Apache may run in the DMZ but
the servlet engine JSERV will run behind the firewall protected so that data
can be submitted to the servlets only via the webserver. You can also have a
bunch of webservers that have been load balanced in the DMZ and only one JSERV
behind the FireWall. If for some reason (like via a DOS attack) one Apache
Webserver does go down, the load balancing software or hardware can send the
requests to the next Apache IP address and your service will remain up
including your Servlet Engine (JSERV) and hopefully you are using intrusion
detection FireWall packages out there that can protect JSERV or the Servlet
Engine being accessed directly from the net somehow.
Also I have not played around with TOMCAT yet so I could not tell you how its
speed compares to iPlanet Webserver. I hope that it has increased compared to
JSERV.
In reply to the original post I would just say that you download the trial
version of the iPlanet Webserver and install it and run your applications
against it and see the performance for yourself.
http://www.iplanet.com:80/downloads/download/index.html
You might be prompted to register before you download evaluation software.
Remember however that unlike Apache if you would like to use group controls
etc. on iPlanet Webserver, you will need iPlanet Directory Server as well (LDAP
server) which has to run on a different machine and has to have a domain. You
cannot run the LDAP server on the same machine. If you use SSL and use things
like Client Authentication via client browser certificates then again these
certificates will have to be mapped to the directory entries in the LDAP
server. One good thing about iPlanet Webserver is that you can easily setup SSL
accelerator cards to be used with it (like Rainbow cards etc.). Trying to do
that with Apache SSLEAY is a ...
Sincerely,
Abid Farooqui
"Bari, Naeem" wrote:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> BEFORE YOU POST, search the faq at <http://java.apache.org/faq/>
> WHEN YOU POST, include all relevant version numbers, log files,
> and configuration files. Don't make us guess your problem!!!
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hmph. It appears that mindcraft used jserv 1.0 (they mention the
> version in the "mindcraft certification" section).
>
> I am pretty sure that jserv 1.0 is much, much slower than jserv 1.1
>
> Also, $1500 per server for iPlanet? Try $35,000 (thats right, 35 *thousand*
> dollars) per cpu! Thats what iPlanet costs.
>
> so if you use a 4 cpu Sun e450, be prepared for a list price of
> $140,000 just for iplanet alone. I got the pricing from
> http://www.flashline.com/components/appservermatrix.jsp, BTW... a pretty
> nice site...
>
> You can also read www.infoworld.com to see their opinion of iPlanet.
> The bottom line: a great product, but not worth the price tag.
>
> You are also comparing apples to oranges, a little bit. Full bodied
> Application Servers like iPlanet, WebSphere and their ilk provide a
> lot more services than jserv does. Read up on the J2EE specs to see
> why you would need one.
>
> My personal take is this:
>
> Unless you are writing a huge industrial strength application that
> absolutely requires some pretty high end features, you are better
> off using jserv or tomcat.
>
> In your particular case, where you have already written your app
> using jserv, this tells me that it probably doesn't need the advanced
> features of a full blow app server. So why spend the money and time
> on it?
>
> On a side note, I take anything from mindcraft with not a grain,
> but fistfulls of salt. I have seen several of their surveys that
> are quite ridiculous. AFAIK, they take money from vendors and design
> "benchmarks" that would favor the vendors. Like using jserv 1.0,
> for instance, knowing full well that jserv 1.1 would have made
> iPlanet look a lot less appealing.
>
> Hope that helps,
> naeem
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Ricker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 3:09 PM
> > To: Java Apache Users
> > Subject: Jserv vs. iPlanet
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > BEFORE YOU POST, search the faq at <http://java.apache.org/faq/>
> > WHEN YOU POST, include all relevant version numbers, log files,
> > and configuration files. Don't make us guess your problem!!!
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I have a dilemma that I would like to open up for possible discussion.
> >
> > Right now, I am running Apache 1.3.12 with Jserv 1.1 and 1.1.2, both
> > Sun's and Blackdown's JDK 1.2.2. We run a servlet based web app which
> > accesses an Oracle database through JDBC.
> >
> > The question has arose: why aren't we using iPlanet? Now, my main
> > argument is, of course, we would pay $1500 per server while
> > right now we
> > pay $0 per server (for the software). However, as our company
> > grows, the
> > money will start to flow. iPlanet's site
> (http://www.iplanet.com) has a
> whole bunch of reasons to switch to them. I can handle most of the
> points but one point they make is hard to counter. They site benchmarks
> from http://www.mindcraft.com which show that iPlanet beats
> Jserv/Stronghold by factors of 4.
>
> I cannot say I udnerstand the methodology of the benchmarks (such as
> "latency" as they term it). Can someone clue me in? Is there anyone who
> see holes in their methodology? Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Ben Ricker
> Web Administrator
> US-Rx, Inc.
>
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