On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Pierce, Gregory (TBS) wrote:

> But the interesting thing (to allow me to get back on topic) is how the
> Java3D language would have to change to accomodate a DX and OGL path.
> With DirectX evolving at a much faster pace than OpenGL - it seems that
> coming up with a high level construct to handle the two will get unweildy
> in the future.

Rapid development of an API is not necessarily a good thing. Too much
instability and nowhere near sufficient testing. I really disagree with the
once a year upgrade cycle that DirectX takes, which is reflected in the
quaity of the Windows drivers that you see coming out. However, I also think
that Java3D is moving too slowly and that in the past that the Sun developers
have failed to recognise or ignored some of the really important issues
- correct transparency handling being my biggest beef here.

I don't necessarily see that as an issue. Both groups have expressed a desire
to build a high-level realtime shader language/system to avoid the hardware
specific issues. If you have a dig through the Siggraph papers and presentations
from this year you will see at least 4 items dealing with this particular
topic. In addition, Sun have been funding acedemic research into this area
(I think DougT was also doing this for some time a while ago). One more
point to throw into the pot: At the J3D BoF at Siggraph, the J3D team
explicitly stated that they have no objections to creating a high-level,
non-Java language for shaders that would be "compiled" on the fly in some
form to send to the underlying API/hardware. The JSR process does not
care about this either - have a look at EJB QL that they created to make
life easier for the lastest EJB spec.

So the conclusion from all of this is that I don't think there will be a
problem when it comes to taking in the latest and greatest advances and
stay API independent, yet still do Java specific things. I do feel that it
would be worth Sun's time in dropping the DX implementation and concentrate
on OpenGL so that we can continue to progress the API development as fast
as possible and keep in touch with reality. Of course, if we get some form
of open source development then all bets are off [*slap* Ouch!].

Not really a biggie, but sometimes it just seems as if some of the effort currently 
put into supporting them both might be better served in another way... especially with 
the Java3D time scaled back.
>
> Just a though.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Justin Couch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 5:15 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] Okay I have to ask
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Joachim Diepstraten wrote:
> >
> > > And as Java3D 1.4 lies at least now 2 years in the future.
> >
> > I think that is the critical thing. Shader support in the underlying
> > 3D API is really a non-issue currently. As already stated
> > publically, J3D
> > 1.3 will not be released until mid next year. With the Sun
> > team pared back
> > to minimal levels, the amount of manpower to throw at the
> > problem in the
> > mid-term future is not great. Should 1.4 end up taking its
> > time to get off
> > the starting blocks, then it is even less of a concern. I
> > would imagine that
> > the development effort would focus on what can be achieved
> > with greatest
> > effect - basically implying that OGL 2.0 is the target platform.
> >
> > --
> > Justin Couch                         http://www.vlc.com.au/~justin/
> > Freelance Java Consultant                  http://www.yumetech.com/
> > Author, Java 3D FAQ Maintainer                  http://www.j3d.org/
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > "Look through the lens, and the light breaks down into many lights.
> >  Turn it or move it, and a new set of arrangements appears... is it
> >  a single light or many lights, lights that one must know how to
> >  distinguish, recognise and appreciate? Is it one light with many
> >  frames or one frame for many lights?"      -Subcomandante Marcos
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ==============================================================
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>

--
Justin Couch                         http://www.vlc.com.au/~justin/
Freelance Java Consultant                  http://www.yumetech.com/
Author, Java 3D FAQ Maintainer                  http://www.j3d.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Look through the lens, and the light breaks down into many lights.
 Turn it or move it, and a new set of arrangements appears... is it
 a single light or many lights, lights that one must know how to
 distinguish, recognise and appreciate? Is it one light with many
 frames or one frame for many lights?"      -Subcomandante Marcos
-------------------------------------------------------------------

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