Wow, JSF... really? That's easily the most hated view technology if you ask around in a JUG or online for that matter [http://bit.ly/jsf- sucks].
On Apr 17, 4:40 am, jitesh dundas <[email protected]> wrote: > I agree with the email below.. > > Again, have you noticed what Java is doing with jsf/jstl on the > web-based applications.. > > Java seems to erase out HTML wit its own tags and support to handle > things using its j2ee server..It is spreading its wings in my opinion. > Not to forget the ease with which complex code is being written with a > jsf tag. > > Java seems to be spreading ,holding true its cross-platform / > cross-environment implementation portability vision. > > I wonder if t e Stats really giving the true picture... > > Regards, > Jitesh Dundas > > On 4/15/10, Wildam Martin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:31, Casper Bang <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Somehow Sun lost their vision for Java a long time ago and hid behind > >> the compatibility wall. > > > I think, the vision was quite clear right at the beginning and my > > opinion is that this vision still applies. My personal background as a > > developer is that until 2005 our customers had nearly 100% Windows. > > Now not only that nearlly all customers have a Linux firewall, they > > usually have additional Linux-Servers. Until about 2005 my > > Linux-on-the-desktop-attempts came along with a lot of basic problems > > like graphic card not recognized etc. Now I run Linux on my desktop > > even at work where most of the things ran out-of-the-box. I think, > > that platform independence was never so interesting and important as > > today! - Have a look at > >http://www.focus.com/fyi/information-technology/50-places-linux-runni... > > - and this is just a part of the story. Last year I heard of customers > > using Open BSD the first time. Other customer uses Solaris. On the > > desktop there is Mac getting more and more market share - at least > > that is my experience with some friends having bought a Mac in the > > last one or two years (I could not have imagined that a few years > > ago). There isn't either just Windows, Mac and Linux if we look a > > little into detail. We have a huge amount of operating systems > > nowadays - look athttp://distrowatch.com/. > > > Quite every customer I face nowadays as a multi-OS-environment. And it > > is an important freedom for the customer to have the app running where > > he wants not being limited by specific OS requirement. And Linux on > > the desktop is also becoming more important - no, there won't be "THE > > year of Linux on the desktop" - it will be a slight transition that > > will last many years. And from my personal view before 2005 it was > > quite unrealistic for Linux on the desktop for the masses. But I can > > see each year really great improvements. > > > So bringing it to the point: Java had a vision that only NOWADAYS > > begins to get REALLY important! > > >> Since Microsoft was forced to start from > >> scratch, they've been able to move rapidly and deliver quite a bit of > >> productive innovation into the mainstream with Hejlsberg, Lippert, > >> Torgerson and now Huginen, Meijer and Gafter at the helm. > > > I was a Windows-only-Developer until approx. End of 2008 and I tried > > and compared Java with .NET several times. My .NET experience was bad, > > really bad (ok, I started with .NET 1.0 and was so disappointed that I > > left it for another year until retrying), but even my last experiences > > (about a year ago) can only be described with the word "annoyance". > > > The company I am working for does a lot of .NET development and this > > is needed because this is the _current_ "state of the art" development > > base for Windows and the vast majority of our customers is (still) > > using Windows on the desktop and have Windows servers and want some > > Windows-Applications to be tightly integrated that only have > > programming interfaces for Windows. - Problems with .NET start with > > the setup. Do you remember times under MS-DOS (if you had experience > > with that), when copying a few files was all the "installation" work > > needed to get the application onto a machine? - People forgot that it > > could be so simple but they want this back only if it is to not touch > > too much on that running Windows workstation/server. Yesterday I got a > > call of a customer who destroyed his server by installing MS SQL > > Server Express 2005 and 2008 in parallel - boom! - I dare, he would > > (at least from now) prefer copying a single Jar or War for an app to > > get it up and running! > > >> The open source implementations are not far behind, but enough to be > >> dismissed > >> on that ground alone - in spite of still being leaps and bounds ahead > >> of Java. > > > Ahead of Java? - Can't see that. BTW: Just dropping checked exceptions > > was a bad decision IMHO (just to give an example). Not talking of all > > the available stuff around it. Not a single thing where you don't have > > at least - at least - two choices in Java. > > >> For the first time I think, we've heard some similar concerns from > >> Joshua Bloch a few days ago - not unlike what Neal Gafter expressed > >> shortly before joining Microsoft: > >>http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/google-exec-worries-over-r... > > > From that what Bloch said there reminds me to Debian. Just because the > > release schedules are longer does not mean that it is going to die. > > Other people might consider this as there is the intention of having a > > stable and well considered system. I am happy, that Java is not > > implementing every new feature-request just because it is currently > > modern. I looked also at newer languages but although they have > > benefits I am quite sure that the long-term-replacement for Java has > > yet to come. I have not the 10-years of Java-history like most > > Java-Developers I know. Let's say I am a "recent convert". I have well > > evaluated the alternatives and I am convinced that still from current > > point of view: JAVA RULES! I LOVE IT - for server and desktop > > development! > > >> I have my doubts about Oracle, like many large enterprises they > >> usually see massively complicated $OA stacks with vendor lock-in, > >> before seeing anything else. But I am ready to be surprised. :) > > > There is no doubt that the Java leadership (and Java "marketing") > > affects decisions for some companies whether to develop some new > > application in Java or something else. > > > -- > > Martin Wildam > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "The Java Posse" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. 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