> I think, the vision was quite clear right at the beginning and my > opinion is that this vision still applies.
>From my point of view, Sun had a hard time staying focused and actually finishing up before they moved on to the next thing. Applet's were terrible, then came the underachieving Swing, then everything moved over to EE, then back to Swing a little again and now JavaFX - which is hurting vanilla Java. I also run Linux at home and at work, that has nothing to do with the language C# though - which this thread is about. You can very well run C# on non-Windows, in fact some of the most popular applications I use daily are C# applications using GTK as a UI toolkit. > So bringing it to the point: Java had a vision that only NOWADAYS > begins to get REALLY important! In the sense that only now, is the network the computer. Yes I agree with that. But Sun's vision with Java was to identify and encapsulate the world and have it would run anywhere. That also meant they made it very hard to step out of this world. Most every complex application in Java that I use today (not many) rely on JNI to actually get the job done. And the cross-platform UI has proven, for all practical purposes, to be a pipe dream. This is essentially what Steve Jobs latest rants are about. > I was a Windows-only-Developer until approx. End of 2008 and I tried > and compared Java with .NET several times. My .NET experience was bad, > really bad (ok, I started with .NET 1.0 and was so disappointed that I > left it for another year until retrying), but even my last experiences > (about a year ago) can only be described with the word "annoyance". You make it a little hard to respond to your points specifically, since "bad", "disappointed", "annoyance" are without substance. Implementing a project in back around 2000 was far easier to do in C# than Java. For one thing, IDE's were lacking horribly until not too long ago. And even with todays tools, you suffer the problems inherent to the language i.e. missing properties and events making it almost impossible for tools to reason about the code. NetBeans tries to lock down parts of the code and maintain a separate XML layout file, something not necessary in .NET. Of course, move over to JDeveloper and you'll be out of luck entirely as they favor FormLayout rather than GroupLayout. > too much on that running Windows workstation/server. Yesterday I got a > call of a customer who destroyed his server by installing MS SQL > Server Express 2005 and 2008 in parallel - boom! - I dare, he would > (at least from now) prefer copying a single Jar or War for an app to > get it up and running! What does MS SQL Server have to do with C#? I could tell you a story about Oracle table spaces here but it would be equally irrelevant. > Ahead of Java? - Can't see that. BTW: Just dropping checked exceptions > was a bad decision IMHO (just to give an example). Not talking of all > the available stuff around it. Not a single thing where you don't have > at least - at least - two choices in Java. Ahead of Java in that almost all of the new stuff for JDK7, is already in C#. Ahead of Java in bringing former patterns into first class language constructs. Ahead of Java, as in having chosen superior solutions to problems (i.e. generics, co/contravariance etc.). As to checked exceptions, most major recent frameworks choses not to use these as they pollute the method signatures and harms versioning. In .NET this can be handled through code contracts, a far more versatile approach to defensive programming - but without tying the developers hands. In fact, I regularly build with my own JDK just so I can avoid the draconian rules around checked exceptions. /Casper -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
