On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Mario Fusco <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Why can't we be interested in both? > > I am not saying you couldn't be interested in both. Actually I am. I > just wanted to keep the two things separated. This can be a > questionable choice with pros and cons. I was just suggesting to try > this strategy but to tag the "scala infected" thread with [scala] > could work either. I am just afraid that more than the half of the > threads in this mailing list could be sooner or later tagged in that > way. > > I'm ok with this but the Scala threads don't bother me. I read them like everything else here. Well, I have stopped reading the legal stuff and the language theory threads. > > From a business perspective, I don't see > > a chance of getting Scala into production. > > Sorry, but this sounds just the point of view of a java fan. And > that's exactly what I was trying to avoid by creating a different > discussion group. For what it matters, Scala is already in production > in a lot of enterprise level projects. > > How can that sound like a Java fan? Doesn't even compare to the heralding going on in the Scala camp. All I'm saying is that there are millions of Java developers who can't change, and should not be made to feel bad for not having done so. No one wants to be left behind. There are still millions of programs and billions of lines of code written in Java that have to be maintained. Aren't there still Cobol, Fortran, C, C++ and Lisp developers out there maintaining and upgrading systems? I don't see them getting a bunch of grief because they haven't switched. They are necessary and useful developers and should not be looked down on just because they do not have a job using the latest development language. > > I could realistically see > > companies using JDK 7 or 8 into 2020 or beyond. > > I see the same as much as I see lots of cobol programmers in 2010 > still. What should that mean? > > That companies decide and not the developers. There are RPG programs running on AS400 systems that were created back when I was a freshman in college. They are still running, doing their job, and someone has to maintain them. Until it is more expensive to maintain than to replace, these languages and systems will be maintained. There will need to be people to do the work, and that means there will be Cobol programmers still working well into the future. It is all about business, not technology. > > Keep the scala and groovy discussions. Just loose the 'fan boy' > mentality. > > I will try to. But once again let me notice that often java fan boy > seems to be the most intransigent ones. > > I really don't like being called a Java fan boy. I am not advocating is as a better language than C, or Lisp, or any other language. I am not telling people that they need to be switched to Java to improve their coding productivity. I'm not telling people that other languages are dead. I'm not doing anything you are accusing me of. All I am saying is that Java is going to live on and that the Scala people need to get used to that idea and not let it bother them. Seriously! Move onward, forward, and upward. I am grateful for trailblazers who are willing to do the hard work and live with a language in its infancy dealing with all the pains that go with it. I tried Java 1.0 and didn't like it. It was buggy, crashed all the time, and I couldn't get it to work although IBM really wanted me to. When Java 1.1 was released they asked me again and I was able to get things stable enough to move forward with the project. It was at that time I decided that for me, Java was better than C++ and should be where I spend my time. Never did I tell everyone else that C/C++ was a dead language and that they should switch or be doomed as a dinosaur. History has proven that C/C++ is still very much alive. > > So what if I have to write twice as much code. My employer doesn't care > if I > > write 100 or 1000 lines of code to do something. All they care about is > > whether it works properly and did it get done on time so they can get it > to > > market. That is where the paycheck is and our job is to deliver. > > Indeed your customers don't care of the languages and technologies you > use. I wrote exactly the same in a former email. They don't care but > you should anyway. If you have the half of LOC you will have the half > of bugs and maintenance costs. As stated by Antoine de Saint-Exupéry: > "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but > when there is nothing left to remove" > > So what if there are half the lines of code. Ever try reading a Perl program? What makes you think that Scala is so much more elegant. 5 years from now there may be an even better language than Scala. Humans improve things incrementally. Our goal is perfection but I'm not naive enough to believe that we can reach it in my lifetime. > My 2 cents, > Mario > > My $12.95 -- Robert Casto www.robertcasto.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
