GJ = Pizza right? On Sep 11, 9:33 pm, Ricky Clarkson <[email protected]> wrote: > GJ was actually the basis of javac 1.3, but with the generics > disabled. I believe there was a way of getting at the generics, which > was removed in 1.4. > > Ricky. > > -- > Ricky Clarkson > Java and Scala Programmer, AD Holdings > +44 1928 706373 > Skype: ricky_clarkson > > > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Kevin Wright <[email protected]> > wrote: > > At risk of coming across as just such a fan boy, I think your analogy badly > > misrepresents Scala advocates. > > - A Scala developer working commercially is every bit as interested in > > getting the job done and bringing a product to market. Much of the basis of > > my personal passion comes from direct experience that I can do this more > > effectively in Scala. > > - At least in Europe, some of the biggest Scala adopters are financial > > companies. The functional programming paradigm maps far more closely to > > their business domain model. > > - We accept that there's a business risk in ANY change, but are also aware > > of the opportunity cost in maintaining the status quo; this is a business > > risk too. > > - Almost all Scala developers migrated from being very strong Java > > developers, I personally have over 15 years experience in the language. > > Often the final push to migrating is when you finally become just that > > little bit *too* frustrated with Java's limitations and inconsistent > > behaviour and syntax after working with it for a long time. Believe me, > > we're very aware of the strengths of both Java and the JVM, but that > > knowledge didn't blinker me to the idea that there may be something better > > (which would have been the true fan-boy behaviour). It also helps that > > there's now something to migrate to. > > - Martin Odersky has already set a precedent in replacing a previous Java > > compiler. This happened when GJ became the basis of Java 1.5, adding > > generics to the language. > > - Changing language is not like finding the obscene amounts of cash needed > > to buy a sports car. Programming languages are generally made available as > > free downloads, and there are plenty of learning resources online. > > - There is a lot of misunderstanding about the language, perhaps the worst > > example being "Scala is too complex". Any Scala developer will freely admit > > to you that "yes, of course there's a learning curve". I saw the language > > syntax daunting at first, we all did, but it becomes natural a lot faster > > than you might imagine! > > For almost every conceivable task I now find Scala to be far more intuitive > > than Java ever was. The only time you'll encounter serious complexity in > > Scala is when working with the sort of seriously complex problem that you > > just wouldn't consider tackling in Java. I'm now writing code that in Java > > I'd have to break type safety via reflection, or use a DI framework, or end > > up with lots of duplication, or drop cases I'd like to cover, or force a lot > > of synchronization and worry about about performance and thread safety. > > > On 11 September 2010 17:23, Robert Casto <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Why can't we be interested in both? From a business perspective, I don't > >> see a chance of getting Scala into production. I could realistically see > >> companies using JDK 7 or 8 into 2020 or beyond. Retailers, insurance, > >> financial companies, and the like are not using Java for the sake of using > >> Java. It is there to meet a business need. They will see no need to change > >> unless they can't find Java developers. And boy have we been creating Java > >> developers for the past 15+ years! > > >> Keep the scala and groovy discussions. Just loose the 'fan boy' mentality. > >> So what if I have to write twice as much code. My employer doesn't care if > >> I > >> write 100 or 1000 lines of code to do something. All they care about is > >> whether it works properly and did it get done on time so they can get it to > >> market. That is where the paycheck is and our job is to deliver. > > >> Of course there are better methods to getting the job done. One of the > >> Posse drives a Tesla while I drive a Ford F150. I'm not about to go out and > >> buy a Tesla just so I can get somewhere faster. The truck is good enough > >> for > >> now and will be for years to come. I can't afford a Tesla and everyone > >> telling me to go buy one because it is better is not going to make me > >> change. The point is, there are many other reasons to keep writing programs > >> in the Java language, and those reasons need to be respected by the "fan > >> boys". > > >> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Zankan Hsieh <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>> I do agree that there is no need for another scala forum. I think most > >>> people here are still interested to know new languages and different > >>> perspective of each language, including scala. Personally I don't want > >>> scala discussion to go away from this forum but it is indeed very tiresome > >>> to see every discussion turn into same scala is awesome and my code is > >>> half > >>> as long as yours type of comment. I appreciate people's discussion on > >>> this > >>> forum but its really tiresome to read the 100s time how awesome scala is > >>> without really learning anything new in the discussion. May be it is a > >>> better idea to tag subject line when that happen so it's easier for people > >>> to decide whether to skip. > >>> Finally let me say that I really appreciate people contributing to this > >>> forum and I learn alot from many of you. Thanks > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Sep 11, 2010, at 8:20 AM, Kevin Wright <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > > >>> I'm not 100% convinced, it seems that Scala only became involved in those > >>> threads where it was relevant. > >>> While JVM closures, and the alleged "death" of Java, and alternatives to > >>> vendor lock-in with Oracle are all hot topics, I think it'll be difficult > >>> (impossible even) for Scala not to come up in discussions. > >>> It's also very informative to look at Scala representation in conferences > >>> such as Strange Loop, JAX, Javazone, Devoxx, etc. Not to mention Amazon > >>> book sales relating to JVM languages. The phenomenon is absolutely not > >>> limited to this mailing list! > >>> I vote to tag specifically Scala related topics with [Scala], and > >>> otherwise accept that it will come up as being relevant in other more > >>> general discussion. > > >>> Specifically: > >>> "Request for Scala fans" > >>> - It's in the title, what else can I say... > >>> "JDK 7 delayed to mid 2012" > >>> - Lots of discussion concerning the lack of closures and possible > >>> alternatives. > >>> "simplicity trivial/complexity manageable" > >>> - Thread that I started, intending to concentrate Scala talk in one > >>> place. Didn't quite work out that way. > >>> "Mushroom Season - New language each year" > >>> - I'll accept blame on this one, after reading: "I don't think we are > >>> talking about noddy improvements in semantics or > >>> conciseness like Scala promotes. Scala adds nothing to Java in the real > >>> world, compared to a better persistence idiom". I felt obliged to correct > >>> the numerous misunderstandings and misrepresentations there, sorry about > >>> that! > >>> "Management: For now Java is no longer an option for new development" > >>> - Which led to the obvious debate on "what is an option then". Scala was > >>> suggested. > > >>> On 11 September 2010 12:45, Mario Fusco <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>> I think Reiner is right. There are lots of Scala fans here including > >>>> myself. And it seems we have the bad habit (not trait :) ) to diverge > >>>> many discussion on Scala related topics. > > >>>> Anyway this is also the symptom of an always growing hype around > >>>> Scala. For these reasons I suppose it could be a great idea to branch > >>>> this group and create a brand new one more specifically related to > >>>> Scala. > > >>>> At this purpose I just registered The Scala Posse group: > >>>>http://groups.google.com/group/scalapossehoping to move there all the > >>>> threads speaking about Scala. Do you think It makes sense? > > >>>> For all the Scala developers, let me know if this initiative could be > >>>> interesting to you. > > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> Mario > > >>>> P.S.: I don't know if I am violating some intellectual property or > >>>> even if I am doing something wrong in any other sense by using the > >>>> "Posse" name. In this case, please let me know it and I will change > >>>> the name of the group immediately. > > >>>> -- > >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>> Groups "The Java Posse" group. > >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>>> [email protected]. > >>>> For more options, visit this group at > >>>>http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > >>> -- > >>> Kevin Wright > > >>> mail / gtalk / msn : [email protected] > >>> pulse / skype: kev.lee.wright > >>> twitter: @thecoda > > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >>> "The Java Posse" group. > >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>> [email protected]. > >>> For more options, visit this group at > >>>http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >>> "The Java Posse" group. > >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>> [email protected]. > >>> For more options, visit this group at > >>>http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > >> -- > >> Robert Casto > >>www.robertcasto.com > > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "The Java Posse" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected]. > >> For > > ... > > read more »
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
