GJ was actually the basis of javac 1.3, but with the generics disabled. I believe there was a way of getting at the generics, which was removed in 1.4.
Ricky. -- Ricky Clarkson Java and Scala Programmer, AD Holdings +44 1928 706373 Skype: ricky_clarkson On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Kevin Wright <[email protected]> wrote: > At risk of coming across as just such a fan boy, I think your analogy badly > misrepresents Scala advocates. > - A Scala developer working commercially is every bit as interested in > getting the job done and bringing a product to market. Much of the basis of > my personal passion comes from direct experience that I can do this more > effectively in Scala. > - At least in Europe, some of the biggest Scala adopters are financial > companies. The functional programming paradigm maps far more closely to > their business domain model. > - We accept that there's a business risk in ANY change, but are also aware > of the opportunity cost in maintaining the status quo; this is a business > risk too. > - Almost all Scala developers migrated from being very strong Java > developers, I personally have over 15 years experience in the language. > Often the final push to migrating is when you finally become just that > little bit *too* frustrated with Java's limitations and inconsistent > behaviour and syntax after working with it for a long time. Believe me, > we're very aware of the strengths of both Java and the JVM, but that > knowledge didn't blinker me to the idea that there may be something better > (which would have been the true fan-boy behaviour). It also helps that > there's now something to migrate to. > - Martin Odersky has already set a precedent in replacing a previous Java > compiler. This happened when GJ became the basis of Java 1.5, adding > generics to the language. > - Changing language is not like finding the obscene amounts of cash needed > to buy a sports car. Programming languages are generally made available as > free downloads, and there are plenty of learning resources online. > - There is a lot of misunderstanding about the language, perhaps the worst > example being "Scala is too complex". Any Scala developer will freely admit > to you that "yes, of course there's a learning curve". I saw the language > syntax daunting at first, we all did, but it becomes natural a lot faster > than you might imagine! > For almost every conceivable task I now find Scala to be far more intuitive > than Java ever was. The only time you'll encounter serious complexity in > Scala is when working with the sort of seriously complex problem that you > just wouldn't consider tackling in Java. I'm now writing code that in Java > I'd have to break type safety via reflection, or use a DI framework, or end > up with lots of duplication, or drop cases I'd like to cover, or force a lot > of synchronization and worry about about performance and thread safety. > > > On 11 September 2010 17:23, Robert Casto <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Why can't we be interested in both? From a business perspective, I don't >> see a chance of getting Scala into production. I could realistically see >> companies using JDK 7 or 8 into 2020 or beyond. Retailers, insurance, >> financial companies, and the like are not using Java for the sake of using >> Java. It is there to meet a business need. They will see no need to change >> unless they can't find Java developers. And boy have we been creating Java >> developers for the past 15+ years! >> >> Keep the scala and groovy discussions. Just loose the 'fan boy' mentality. >> So what if I have to write twice as much code. My employer doesn't care if I >> write 100 or 1000 lines of code to do something. All they care about is >> whether it works properly and did it get done on time so they can get it to >> market. That is where the paycheck is and our job is to deliver. >> >> Of course there are better methods to getting the job done. One of the >> Posse drives a Tesla while I drive a Ford F150. I'm not about to go out and >> buy a Tesla just so I can get somewhere faster. The truck is good enough for >> now and will be for years to come. I can't afford a Tesla and everyone >> telling me to go buy one because it is better is not going to make me >> change. The point is, there are many other reasons to keep writing programs >> in the Java language, and those reasons need to be respected by the "fan >> boys". >> >> >> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Zankan Hsieh <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I do agree that there is no need for another scala forum. I think most >>> people here are still interested to know new languages and different >>> perspective of each language, including scala. Personally I don't want >>> scala discussion to go away from this forum but it is indeed very tiresome >>> to see every discussion turn into same scala is awesome and my code is half >>> as long as yours type of comment. I appreciate people's discussion on this >>> forum but its really tiresome to read the 100s time how awesome scala is >>> without really learning anything new in the discussion. May be it is a >>> better idea to tag subject line when that happen so it's easier for people >>> to decide whether to skip. >>> Finally let me say that I really appreciate people contributing to this >>> forum and I learn alot from many of you. Thanks >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> On Sep 11, 2010, at 8:20 AM, Kevin Wright <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I'm not 100% convinced, it seems that Scala only became involved in those >>> threads where it was relevant. >>> While JVM closures, and the alleged "death" of Java, and alternatives to >>> vendor lock-in with Oracle are all hot topics, I think it'll be difficult >>> (impossible even) for Scala not to come up in discussions. >>> It's also very informative to look at Scala representation in conferences >>> such as Strange Loop, JAX, Javazone, Devoxx, etc. Not to mention Amazon >>> book sales relating to JVM languages. The phenomenon is absolutely not >>> limited to this mailing list! >>> I vote to tag specifically Scala related topics with [Scala], and >>> otherwise accept that it will come up as being relevant in other more >>> general discussion. >>> >>> Specifically: >>> "Request for Scala fans" >>> - It's in the title, what else can I say... >>> "JDK 7 delayed to mid 2012" >>> - Lots of discussion concerning the lack of closures and possible >>> alternatives. >>> "simplicity trivial/complexity manageable" >>> - Thread that I started, intending to concentrate Scala talk in one >>> place. Didn't quite work out that way. >>> "Mushroom Season - New language each year" >>> - I'll accept blame on this one, after reading: "I don't think we are >>> talking about noddy improvements in semantics or >>> conciseness like Scala promotes. Scala adds nothing to Java in the real >>> world, compared to a better persistence idiom". I felt obliged to correct >>> the numerous misunderstandings and misrepresentations there, sorry about >>> that! >>> "Management: For now Java is no longer an option for new development" >>> - Which led to the obvious debate on "what is an option then". Scala was >>> suggested. >>> >>> >>> On 11 September 2010 12:45, Mario Fusco <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> I think Reiner is right. There are lots of Scala fans here including >>>> myself. And it seems we have the bad habit (not trait :) ) to diverge >>>> many discussion on Scala related topics. >>>> >>>> Anyway this is also the symptom of an always growing hype around >>>> Scala. For these reasons I suppose it could be a great idea to branch >>>> this group and create a brand new one more specifically related to >>>> Scala. >>>> >>>> At this purpose I just registered The Scala Posse group: >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/scalaposse hoping to move there all the >>>> threads speaking about Scala. Do you think It makes sense? >>>> >>>> For all the Scala developers, let me know if this initiative could be >>>> interesting to you. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Mario >>>> >>>> P.S.: I don't know if I am violating some intellectual property or >>>> even if I am doing something wrong in any other sense by using the >>>> "Posse" name. In this case, please let me know it and I will change >>>> the name of the group immediately. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "The Java Posse" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kevin Wright >>> >>> mail / gtalk / msn : [email protected] >>> pulse / skype: kev.lee.wright >>> twitter: @thecoda >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "The Java Posse" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "The Java Posse" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. >> >> >> >> -- >> Robert Casto >> www.robertcasto.com >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Java Posse" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > > > -- > Kevin Wright > > mail / gtalk / msn : [email protected] > pulse / skype: kev.lee.wright > twitter: @thecoda > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
