Reiner, you didn't get what I was saying. I AM referring to the latest episode where Mike Daisy's claims were challenged.
Towards the end of that episode, there is an interview with a journalist who wrote an article about the 'iEconomy'. Apple knows about violations. Try again, Rakesh On 29 March 2012 12:25, Reinier Zwitserloot <[email protected]> wrote: > Replies inline. > > The short of it: Rakesh has been hoodwinked by Mike Daisey. > > > On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 7:20:19 PM UTC+2, raks wrote: >> >> Reiner, >> >> "blaming western companies for this is an extraordinary claim that >> requires extraordinary evidence" >> >> Apple has yearly reports about violations in its factories in China. >> EVERY YEAR there are major violations. Do you not think if Apple >> wanted zero violations it would get it? > > > No. How? I'm guessing that if Apple is willfully doing this they wouldn't be > making reports about it. Also, what's the upside for apple in having these > violations on the books? It's fairly obvious to me that [Brand Damage * > Chance this turns into a worldwide stink] is many orders of magnitude larger > than the amount apple saves on the contract with foxconn because these > practices continue. So, what's apple's motivation? > > I firmly believe companies do things mostly because it earns money, and very > slightly to stroke the ego of upper management. I rather doubt upper > management is getting off on continuing unfair labour practices. But if it's > not that, then either apple is stupid, or the financial gain of continuing > these practices are incredibly large. I'd be very surprised if either is the > case, so, either I'm missing something, or you must be wrong, i.e.: Apple > would like there to be 0 infractions on the books but it is not capable of > making this happen. > >> >> I would strongly urge you to listen to the podcast episode of This >> American Life (460) where they interview a journalist about the >> 'iEconomy'. > > > You're referring to episode 454, which is a lengthy interview about this > with Mike Daisey. That entire episode is a lie. > > This episode was retracted in a full length episode named 'retraction', > which is in fact episode 460: > > http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/460/retraction > > > >> >> Rakesh >> >> I would point you to the recent podcast by This American Life where >> they had to apologise about the >> >> On 28 March 2012 16:25, Reinier Zwitserloot <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Conditions in china are pretty bad and 'we' (the western world) should >> > definitely try to do something about it, but blaming western companies >> > for >> > this is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence. >> > >> > England, the US, and europe went through this phase too, and we didn't >> > have >> > another continent goading us into it (the triangle shirt factory fire, >> > untold numbers of kids in the coal mines, etc). In fact, if you look at >> > what's happening in china right now, it's a vast improvement compared to >> > Europe/UK/US's days of labour force abuse. It's not 'right' by any >> > stretch >> > of the imagination, but it's better. Either China is learning from >> > example, >> > or the pressure of western companies is helping, or China is just >> > naturally >> > more inclined to value human life highly. >> > >> > Sure, big corporations are amoral. But they aren't bond villains wearing >> > a >> > monocle, raising their pinky to their mouth, and going >> > "Muhahahahaha!!!!" >> > with a cat in their lap - they are amoral entities that just look out >> > for >> > the bottom line. They aren't any more or less evil than that. There is >> > virtually no money to be earned i.e. employing kids on a foxconn >> > production >> > line, and there's hundreds of millions of dollars worth of brand damage >> > on >> > the line if it comes that apple by willful negligence or worse is the >> > source >> > of it. If it were up to apple, 0 kids would be on that production line, >> > purely because that's the right economic answer. >> > >> > NB: That last bit is also why you SHOULD get upset when companies do >> > things >> > you find morally objectionable - in order for said company to take your >> > moral complaint seriously you have to make it so that they lose more by >> > ignoring you than by addressing your objection. However, what, exactly, >> > is >> > apple doing that is morally objectionable? This is the same reason why I >> > keep getting annoyed at Joe's continued defense of apple's patent and >> > programmer restrictions with 'they are just a company'. Yes they are. >> > Which >> > is why WE the geeks needs to force them into being nicer to us, they >> > aren't >> > going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts! There its easy to >> > point >> > out what apple is doing that I as a programmer find, well perhaps not >> > _morally_ objectionable, but certainly pretty bad for my future: stoking >> > the >> > fires of the patent war. >> > >> > NB: Insert pretty much whatever hardware selling tech brand you wish in >> > place of 'apple', and insert any of many hundreds of factory >> > conglomerates >> > operating in the shenzen area in place of 'foxconn', if you want. >> > >> > On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:43:40 PM UTC+2, fabrizio.giudici wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Well, I think that in the west we're particular good at doing. For >> >> instance, about worker exploitation in China's factories, I've never >> >> seen >> >> >> >> a story that didn't start from west attention, or because a west >> >> manufacturer was involved (e.g. Apple). >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect, Project Manager >> >> Tidalwave s.a.s. - "We make Java work. Everywhere." >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://tidalwave.it - http://fabriziogiudici.it >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "The Java Posse" group. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/javaposse/-/sduoCTcxf6sJ. >> > >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [email protected]. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/javaposse/-/0b2KySviKDMJ. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. 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