After Steve Jobs passed away, I predicted we would start seeing a new, more gentle and more humane Apple. I think this is yet another indication of this.
Here is another quick prediction: in the next twelve months, Apple will start donating to charities again (Jobs killed all charity donations when he rejoined Apple in 1997). -- Cédric On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Reinier Zwitserloot <[email protected]>wrote: > Relevant: > > > http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/30/uk-apple-foxconn-idUSLNE82T00B20120330 > > > On Thursday, March 29, 2012 1:58:00 PM UTC+2, raks wrote: >> >> Reiner, >> >> you didn't get what I was saying. I AM referring to the latest episode >> where Mike Daisy's claims were challenged. >> >> Towards the end of that episode, there is an interview with a >> journalist who wrote an article about the 'iEconomy'. Apple knows >> about violations. >> >> Try again, >> >> Rakesh >> >> On 29 March 2012 12:25, Reinier Zwitserloot <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Replies inline. >> > >> > The short of it: Rakesh has been hoodwinked by Mike Daisey. >> > >> > >> > On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 7:20:19 PM UTC+2, raks wrote: >> >> >> >> Reiner, >> >> >> >> "blaming western companies for this is an extraordinary claim that >> >> requires extraordinary evidence" >> >> >> >> Apple has yearly reports about violations in its factories in China. >> >> EVERY YEAR there are major violations. Do you not think if Apple >> >> wanted zero violations it would get it? >> > >> > >> > No. How? I'm guessing that if Apple is willfully doing this they >> wouldn't be >> > making reports about it. Also, what's the upside for apple in having >> these >> > violations on the books? It's fairly obvious to me that [Brand Damage * >> > Chance this turns into a worldwide stink] is many orders of magnitude >> larger >> > than the amount apple saves on the contract with foxconn because these >> > practices continue. So, what's apple's motivation? >> > >> > I firmly believe companies do things mostly because it earns money, and >> very >> > slightly to stroke the ego of upper management. I rather doubt upper >> > management is getting off on continuing unfair labour practices. But if >> it's >> > not that, then either apple is stupid, or the financial gain of >> continuing >> > these practices are incredibly large. I'd be very surprised if either >> is the >> > case, so, either I'm missing something, or you must be wrong, i.e.: >> Apple >> > would like there to be 0 infractions on the books but it is not capable >> of >> > making this happen. >> > >> >> >> >> I would strongly urge you to listen to the podcast episode of This >> >> American Life (460) where they interview a journalist about the >> >> 'iEconomy'. >> > >> > >> > You're referring to episode 454, which is a lengthy interview about this >> > with Mike Daisey. That entire episode is a lie. >> > >> > This episode was retracted in a full length episode named 'retraction', >> > which is in fact episode 460: >> > >> > http://www.thisamericanlife.**org/radio-archives/episode/** >> 460/retraction<http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/460/retraction> >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> Rakesh >> >> >> >> I would point you to the recent podcast by This American Life where >> >> they had to apologise about the >> >> >> >> On 28 March 2012 16:25, Reinier Zwitserloot <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > Conditions in china are pretty bad and 'we' (the western world) >> should >> >> > definitely try to do something about it, but blaming western >> companies >> >> > for >> >> > this is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence. >> >> > >> >> > England, the US, and europe went through this phase too, and we >> didn't >> >> > have >> >> > another continent goading us into it (the triangle shirt factory >> fire, >> >> > untold numbers of kids in the coal mines, etc). In fact, if you look >> at >> >> > what's happening in china right now, it's a vast improvement >> compared to >> >> > Europe/UK/US's days of labour force abuse. It's not 'right' by any >> >> > stretch >> >> > of the imagination, but it's better. Either China is learning from >> >> > example, >> >> > or the pressure of western companies is helping, or China is just >> >> > naturally >> >> > more inclined to value human life highly. >> >> > >> >> > Sure, big corporations are amoral. But they aren't bond villains >> wearing >> >> > a >> >> > monocle, raising their pinky to their mouth, and going >> >> > "Muhahahahaha!!!!" >> >> > with a cat in their lap - they are amoral entities that just look out >> >> > for >> >> > the bottom line. They aren't any more or less evil than that. There >> is >> >> > virtually no money to be earned i.e. employing kids on a foxconn >> >> > production >> >> > line, and there's hundreds of millions of dollars worth of brand >> damage >> >> > on >> >> > the line if it comes that apple by willful negligence or worse is the >> >> > source >> >> > of it. If it were up to apple, 0 kids would be on that production >> line, >> >> > purely because that's the right economic answer. >> >> > >> >> > NB: That last bit is also why you SHOULD get upset when companies do >> >> > things >> >> > you find morally objectionable - in order for said company to take >> your >> >> > moral complaint seriously you have to make it so that they lose more >> by >> >> > ignoring you than by addressing your objection. However, what, >> exactly, >> >> > is >> >> > apple doing that is morally objectionable? This is the same reason >> why I >> >> > keep getting annoyed at Joe's continued defense of apple's patent and >> >> > programmer restrictions with 'they are just a company'. Yes they are. >> >> > Which >> >> > is why WE the geeks needs to force them into being nicer to us, they >> >> > aren't >> >> > going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts! There its easy to >> >> > point >> >> > out what apple is doing that I as a programmer find, well perhaps not >> >> > _morally_ objectionable, but certainly pretty bad for my future: >> stoking >> >> > the >> >> > fires of the patent war. >> >> > >> >> > NB: Insert pretty much whatever hardware selling tech brand you wish >> in >> >> > place of 'apple', and insert any of many hundreds of factory >> >> > conglomerates >> >> > operating in the shenzen area in place of 'foxconn', if you want. >> >> > >> >> > On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:43:40 PM UTC+2, fabrizio.giudici >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Well, I think that in the west we're particular good at doing. For >> >> >> instance, about worker exploitation in China's factories, I've never >> >> >> seen >> >> >> >> >> >> a story that didn't start from west attention, or because a west >> >> >> manufacturer was involved (e.g. Apple). >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect, Project Manager >> >> >> Tidalwave s.a.s. - "We make Java work. Everywhere." >> >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> http://tidalwave.it - http://fabriziogiudici.it >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> > Groups >> >> > "The Java Posse" group. >> >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> >> > https://groups.google.com/d/**msg/javaposse/-/sduoCTcxf6sJ<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/javaposse/-/sduoCTcxf6sJ> >> . >> >> > >> >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> > javaposse+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<javaposse%[email protected]> >> . >> >> > For more options, visit this group at >> >> > http://groups.google.com/**group/javaposse?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en> >> . >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> > "The Java Posse" group. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > https://groups.google.com/d/**msg/javaposse/-/0b2KySviKDMJ<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/javaposse/-/0b2KySviKDMJ> >> . >> > >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > javaposse+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<javaposse%[email protected]> >> . >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/**group/javaposse?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en> >> . >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/javaposse/-/To4Hw7E-npkJ. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
