this one didn't make it either...
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Munz
Sent: Fri 1/24/2003 12:18 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Configuration
Service
David,
If you will, take a step back with me. Think JMX and not JBoss-JMX. You
are writing a tool to do generic operations on MBeans. This is the purpose of JMX in
the first place. Your tool encounters a RW attribute. What assumptions can be made,
reasonably?
Here are my assumptions:
1. get the value of the attribute and store it in an object. Do not modify
the object. Set the value of the attribute to the object. No error will occur.
2. set the attribute to a given value that is not equivalent to the current
value. The behavior / state of the MBean will change in a meaningful way.
Does the JMX spec enforce these? Perhaps not. Is it nevertheless
reasonable to expect this behavior? I think so. Neither of these assumptions are
upheld, however, in the current use of MBeans in JBoss.
I realize that re-writing mbeans might cause pain for the project. I'm not
suggesting that it should even be done, necessarily, at least not right away. I am,
however, trying to reconcile the notion of a RW attribute where writing the value has
no effect. Can this be explained simply?
BTW, I don't see how the lifecycle is related to this particular issue.
Perhaps you could explain this in more depth?
- Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: David Jencks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Fri 1/24/2003 11:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Subject: Re: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Configuration
Service
On Friday, January 24, 2003, at 11:07 AM, Matt Munz wrote:
> Sacha,
>
> I follow you fine. The RW attributes you describe should be RO.
> Another mechanism should be used to designate a default value. This
> (mis)use of the MBean interface results in an inconsistent view of
the
> server configuration capabilities. It may be convenient to describe
a
> "write-once at a very-specific time" attribute as RW, but this is
> fitting a round peg in a square hole (it may fit, but it rattles
> around a lot and could break as a result).
I think our current lifecycle based approach is quite workable as long
as you use it as described in my previous post.
As I understand it you are suggesting replacing the jboss lifecycle
idea with the following:
1. All attributes that currently require lifecycle state changes
should
be made read only and set in the mbean constructor.
2. There should be some easy to use way to recreate an mbean with the
same object name, some unchanged attributes, but new constructor
arguments, at least as easy as the current "stop-change-start"
technique.
3. No lifecycle methods.
This might work, I haven't thought of any fatal problems with it.
+: Currently most of our mbeans are probably insufficiently
synchronized. By setting all arguments in the constructor, such
problems could perhaps be reduced.
-: This would require rewriting nearly every jboss mbean.
I'd like to see more advantages before undertaking such an enormous
project.
david jencks
>
> What you need is an Object-creation descriptor that says "pass
these
> arguments to the constructor of object X". Then the value will be
set
> *before* the object is loaded into the MBean server, and there is no
> need to name any attributes RW spuriously.
>
> I think that it is possible that the XMBean descriptor has
something
> like this -- perhaps this is the best option.
>
> The take-home message here is that MBean Persistence is a
> cross-cutting concern. As such, I expect it to pull some skeletons
> out of the closet re: MBeans with inconsistent interfaces.
>
> - Matt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf
of
> Sacha Labourey
> Sent: Fri 1/24/2003 10:30 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> Configuration Service
>
>
> Not exatly.
>
> Take a look at the Naming Service MBean for example. It has a
Port
> and IPAddress RW attribute for example because when the MBean is
> started the following occurs:
> - an instance of the Naming Service class is created (new
blabla())
> - the attribute values found in jboss-service.xml for this
mbean are
> assigned to the RW attributes of the Naming Service MBean
> - the service controller invokes create and then start on the
MBean
> instance
> - inside the create/start methods, the Port/IPAddress
attribute
> values are used to connect to the appropriate port
>
> Once this is done, changing the Port RW attribute will have
*no*
> effect i.e. the naming service will not unbind/rebind with a new
> address/port. For this, you must stop the service, change the values
> and restart it. Do you follow me?
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> sacha
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Matt Munz
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]De la part de
> Matt Munz
> Envoyé : vendredi, 24 janvier 2003 15:59
> À : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Objet : RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ]
Master
> Configuration Service
>
>
> Sacha,
>
> I don't really understand. What good is a RW
attribute if
> changing it has no effect? If this is really the case, then I think
a
> lot of those RW attributes should be changed to RO. The whole idea
of
> JMX is Management. The interface means something, right?
>
> - Matt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of
> Sacha Labourey
> Sent: Fri 1/24/2003 9:45 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change
Notes-672538 ] Master
> Configuration Service
>
>
> Oh, no, nothing wrong at all. It is just that
while I can easily
> see an advantage to take a snapshot of a server config for future
> reference or analysis, re-loading a previous seems as hazardous to
me
> because the configuration should really be applied when the mbeans
are
> created, not afterwards because many settings would then have no
> effects at all (such as port numbers, etc.)
>
> Thank you. cheers,
>
>
> Sacha
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Matt Munz
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]De la part de
> Matt Munz
> Envoyé : vendredi, 24 janvier 2003
15:35
> À :
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Objet : RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change
Notes-672538 ] Master
> Configuration Service
>
>
> Sacha,
>
> No. Nothing fancy going on here.
Just a quick one-off
> proof-of-concept deal. What it does is make text-file-based mbean
> persistence available today, in a format perhaps more amenable to vi
> hackers.
>
> It's pretty simple to use -- why
don't you just drop it in
> deploy and try it out...
>
> Basically, it takes and loads
snapshots. Simple and useable. I
> suppose it could be modified to do other things...
>
> What is wrong with the
jboss-service.xml files? I'm curious --
> What are you getting at?
>
> - Matt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sacha Labourey
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Fri 1/24/2003 8:00 AM
> To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [
jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> Configuration Service
>
>
>
> Can it be used at server
startup instead of the
> jboss-service.xml, etc.
> files? i.e. can it create all
Mbeans and apply all attributes
> value at
> runtime or can he "only"
capture an instant snapshot of the
> current values?
>
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De :
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]De la
> part de Matt
> > Munz
> > Envoyé : mercredi, 22
janvier 2003 19:39
> > À :
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Objet : RE: [JBoss-dev] [
jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> > Configuration Service
> >
> >
> > BTW, I realize that the name
"Master Configuration Service" may
> > be misleading. It only
configures the JMX RW attributes, and
> > isn't really intended as a
fundamental architectural component,
> > but rather as an optional
tool and a POC for the flexibility of
> JMX.
> >
> > - Matt
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matt Munz
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 22,
2003 1:14 PM
> > To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [
jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> > Configuration Service
> >
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > I read the forum, and I'm
not sure how this relates to MBean
> > Persistence. Your examples
seem to be AOP-specific. Could you
> > give an example of what the
integration of this stuff with JMX
> > would be like (if that is
what you intend)?
> >
> > - Matt
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Burke
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 22,
2003 12:13 PM
> > To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [
jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> > Configuration Service
> >
> >
> > I am doing some things
around MetaData and centralized
> configuration and
> > configuration chains in AOP
that I'd like to merge with the
> rest of JBoss.
> > Please see the topic
configuration and metadata in the AOP
> forum.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of Matt
> > > Munz
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January
22, 2003 11:47 AM
> > > To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [
jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> > > Configuration Service
> > >
> > >
> > > Dain,
> > >
> > > I put this together with
your use cases in mind. If
> possible,
> > > check it out, and let me
know what you think.
> > >
> > > - Matt
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: SourceForge.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January
22, 2003 11:29 AM
> > > To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: [JBoss-dev] [
jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> Configuration
> > > Service
> > >
> > >
> > > Change Notes item #672538,
was opened at 2003-01-22 11:28
> > > You can respond by
visiting:
> > >
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=381174&aid=67253
> > > 8&group_id=22866
> > >
> > > Category: None
> > > Group: None
> > > Status: Open
> > > Priority: 5
> > > Submitted By: Matthew Munz
(mattmunz)
> > > Assigned to:
Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
> > > Summary: Master
Configuration Service
> > >
> > > Initial Comment:
> > > A Service which writes and
reads all of the JMX RW
> > > attributes to a single
file in the Java Properties Format.
> > >
> > > I figured that this would
be a good step on the road to an
> > > XML MBean Persistence
engine. This service operates
> > > externally to the MBeans
it persists. It is not really in
> > > line with the JMX spec, so
it doesn't provide MBean
> > > Persistence in the way
implied by the spec.
> > > Nonetheless, a "snapshot"
of the server can be written
> > > and loaded quite easily.
> > >
> > > The details can be found
in the documentation located
> > > under
$jboss-head/varia/src/reources/master-
> > > config.sar/documentation .
> > >
> > > There are a few little
details that should probably be
> > > ironed out, but for those
that need MBean persistence
> > > today, this is a viable
solution.
> > >
> > > The main audience for this
tool is the system admin that
> > > does not use or prefer gui
/ html configuration tools. The
> > > use of the Properties file
format is intentional, as it
> > > provides a more compact
and readible interface when
> > > compared with the XML
format.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure about the
location of this code in the source
> > > tree, so I just put it in
varia for now. I'd appreciate any
> > > ideas on a better place
for it.
> > >
> > > - Matt Munz
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > You can respond by
visiting:
> > >
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=381174&aid=67253
> > 8&group_id=22866
> >
> >
> >
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b[ zb,y+m+-.ǟ +-bا~n,uޖfz{- Re: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master C... David Jencks
- RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Mast... Sacha Labourey
- Re: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] ... David Jencks
- RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-67253... Sacha Labourey
- Re: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-... Scott M Stark
- RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change No... Sacha Labourey
- Re: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-... David Jencks
- RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Config... Matt Munz
- RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Config... Vesco Claudio
- Re: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Config... Matt Munz
- Re: FW: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Co... David Jencks
- RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Config... Matt Munz
- RE: FW: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Co... Matt Munz
- Re: FW: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Mast... David Jencks
- RE: FW: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] ... Sacha Labourey
- Re: FW: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] ... Dain Sundstrom
- Re: FW: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-67253... David Jencks
- Re: FW: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-6... Dain Sundstrom
