david
On Friday, January 24, 2003, at 03:24 PM, Matt Munz wrote:
The third message that didn't make it the first time...
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Munz
Sent: Fri 1/24/2003 11:51 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Configuration Service
David,
This sounds good, but is it possible to KIS?
I think that interrelated attributes can be avoided in most cases. For the exceptional cases, we could provide a mechanism for declaring an order in which the attributes on a given bean should be set. As for inter-Bean dependencies, I suppose this is what the Notification API is for.
The MBean interface will never be able to show the multitude of complex behaviors that an Object can present. What about the methods setValueButOnlyIfTodayIsTuesday(Object value) or setValueButOnlyIfValueFooOnMBeanBarIsAlsoSet(Object value). JMX, as it is, is nice and simple. The lifecycle feature might help, though--I'm on the fence.
This is one of my beefs with generalized architectures -- it is so easy to think up ways to break the system!
- Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: David Jencks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Fri 1/24/2003 10:52 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Subject: Re: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Configuration Service
JMX lacks a service lifecycle, which IMO is needed for this to make
sense. For most jboss mbeans with attributes like port number etc,
changing the attribute value will have an effect if you:
stop
change attribute values
start
Often there are several interrelated attributes so going through the
lifecycle on an individual attribute change doesn't make sense.
There is an unimplemented feature described in the xmbean dtd where you
specify for an attribute what state of service lifecycle you need to go
to when you change an attribute. The idea is if you call
setAttributes() some interceptors should bring the lifecycle state to
the least started level required of any attribute in the list.
For your master configuration feature, I think for each mbean calling
stop
destroy
set attributes
create
start
will work. We will probably find plenty of bugs in lots of mbeans
whose lifecycle is broken: fixing these will greatly improve jboss's
stability IMO.
david jencks
On Friday, January 24, 2003, at 09:59 AM, Matt Munz wrote:
> Sacha,
>
> I don't really understand. What good is a RW attribute if changing
> it has no effect? If this is really the case, then I think a lot of
> those RW attributes should be changed to RO. The whole idea of JMX is
> Management. The interface means something, right?
>
> - Matt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of
> Sacha Labourey
> Sent: Fri 1/24/2003 9:45 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> Configuration Service
>
>
> Oh, no, nothing wrong at all. It is just that while I can easily see
> an advantage to take a snapshot of a server config for future
> reference or analysis, re-loading a previous seems as hazardous to me
> because the configuration should really be applied when the mbeans are
> created, not afterwards because many settings would then have no
> effects at all (such as port numbers, etc.)
>
> Thank you. cheers,
>
>
> Sacha
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Matt Munz
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]De la part de
> Matt Munz
> Envoyé : vendredi, 24 janvier 2003 15:35
> À : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Objet : RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> Configuration Service
>
>
> Sacha,
>
> No. Nothing fancy going on here. Just a quick one-off
> proof-of-concept deal. What it does is make text-file-based mbean
> persistence available today, in a format perhaps more amenable to vi
> hackers.
>
> It's pretty simple to use -- why don't you just drop it in deploy
> and try it out...
>
> Basically, it takes and loads snapshots. Simple and useable. I
> suppose it could be modified to do other things...
>
> What is wrong with the jboss-service.xml files? I'm curious --
> What are you getting at?
>
> - Matt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sacha Labourey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Fri 1/24/2003 8:00 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> Configuration Service
>
>
>
> Can it be used at server startup instead of the jboss-service.xml,
> etc.
> files? i.e. can it create all Mbeans and apply all attributes value
> at
> runtime or can he "only" capture an instant snapshot of the current
> values?
>
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]De la part
> de Matt
> > Munz
> > Envoyé : mercredi, 22 janvier 2003 19:39
> > À : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Objet : RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> > Configuration Service
> >
> >
> > BTW, I realize that the name "Master Configuration Service" may
> > be misleading. It only configures the JMX RW attributes, and
> > isn't really intended as a fundamental architectural component,
> > but rather as an optional tool and a POC for the flexibility of
> JMX.
> >
> > - Matt
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matt Munz
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 1:14 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> > Configuration Service
> >
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > I read the forum, and I'm not sure how this relates to MBean
> > Persistence. Your examples seem to be AOP-specific. Could you
> > give an example of what the integration of this stuff with JMX
> > would be like (if that is what you intend)?
> >
> > - Matt
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Burke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 12:13 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> > Configuration Service
> >
> >
> > I am doing some things around MetaData and centralized
> configuration and
> > configuration chains in AOP that I'd like to merge with the rest
> of JBoss.
> > Please see the topic configuration and metadata in the AOP forum.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf
> Of Matt
> > > Munz
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 11:47 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> > > Configuration Service
> > >
> > >
> > > Dain,
> > >
> > > I put this together with your use cases in mind. If possible,
> > > check it out, and let me know what you think.
> > >
> > > - Matt
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: SourceForge.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 11:29 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> Configuration
> > > Service
> > >
> > >
> > > Change Notes item #672538, was opened at 2003-01-22 11:28
> > > You can respond by visiting:
> > >
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=381174&aid=67253
> > > 8&group_id=22866
> > >
> > > Category: None
> > > Group: None
> > > Status: Open
> > > Priority: 5
> > > Submitted By: Matthew Munz (mattmunz)
> > > Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
> > > Summary: Master Configuration Service
> > >
> > > Initial Comment:
> > > A Service which writes and reads all of the JMX RW
> > > attributes to a single file in the Java Properties Format.
> > >
> > > I figured that this would be a good step on the road to an
> > > XML MBean Persistence engine. This service operates
> > > externally to the MBeans it persists. It is not really in
> > > line with the JMX spec, so it doesn't provide MBean
> > > Persistence in the way implied by the spec.
> > > Nonetheless, a "snapshot" of the server can be written
> > > and loaded quite easily.
> > >
> > > The details can be found in the documentation located
> > > under $jboss-head/varia/src/reources/master-
> > > config.sar/documentation .
> > >
> > > There are a few little details that should probably be
> > > ironed out, but for those that need MBean persistence
> > > today, this is a viable solution.
> > >
> > > The main audience for this tool is the system admin that
> > > does not use or prefer gui / html configuration tools. The
> > > use of the Properties file format is intentional, as it
> > > provides a more compact and readible interface when
> > > compared with the XML format.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure about the location of this code in the source
> > > tree, so I just put it in varia for now. I'd appreciate any
> > > ideas on a better place for it.
> > >
> > > - Matt Munz
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > You can respond by visiting:
> > >
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=381174&aid=67253
> > 8&group_id=22866
> >
> >
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