My personal deadline is September 1st for the 1.1 current code base and then
2.0 development fast and furious. At the current pace I don't know
additional 3month so December for the final pGO.
marc
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Greg Pierce
> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 6:48 AM
> To: 'jBoss'
> Subject: RE: [jBoss-User] Case studies
>
>
> Yes Marc, and thank God. I have been having dreams of the day when I can
> have an EJB2.0 container so that I can abstract away my database
> implementation from my object model implementation. One of the biggest
> problems on a project I'm working on it that very issue. I'm all for real
> CMP, I think it is the best of all possible worlds - but as with
> all things
> I take it with a grain of salt :) BTW, when will jBoss be 2.0 compat?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: marc fleury [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 10:43 PM
> To: jBoss
> Subject: RE: [jBoss-User] Case studies
>
>
> Ok my favorite pet subject.
>
> CMP vs BMP IS NOT AN ISSUE.
>
> Most people ask "which is best CMP or BMP".
> BMP: You use when you have a schema and the sql already written.
> Moving to
> CMP doesn't bring you much. In fact most people with DB and
> queries prefer
> the servlet approach with good reason.
> In short those that come from the database reach the web as quickly as
> possible and that is servlet, BMP is of little value to them at the end of
> the day.
>
> Lazy CMP: Well there will be those that want the EJB stuff and
> already have
> the schema and will rely on say cocobase to generate BMP beans
> that act like
> CMP. If the container has CMP and deals with any preexisting schema it is
> really like Cocobase (i.e. "container managed" through the O/R
> tool). These
> guys already know what a database is, have schemas, people in
> place and just
> need a tool to generate the code for them.
>
> Real CMP: says "what is a database?"... jboss is in that category
> (although
> it can do both of the above). If you write a class and you deploy, jboss
> will create a schema for you that will be able to persist your objects
> automagically. No sql is ever written, you don't know what a "schema" is
> and for all you care it can be a OODBMS. Real CMP masks the Database for
> you, you never see it, you never see a schema.
>
> Sylvain Laurent wrote most of Telkel's online deployment we were
> showing at
> J1. All J2EE (jsp, servlet and CMP) and the beans were fairly
> complex with
> references to other beans and stuff. It blew him away when, once he was
> done writting the classes the schema was created for him by
> introspection on
> deployment. A *clear* value add for all the guys that model applications
> and don't want to bother with SQL and the database. We call it "one click
> deployment", that wouldn't be possible without real CMP.
>
> You are particularly right in saying that the DB vendors are really waging
> war here. This is where it is at, THEY DON"T WANT YOU TO FORGET WHAT A
> SCHEMA IS!!!!! people that come from the web to the persistence,
> and people
> that come from the DB on out cross each other on J2EE.
>
> The spec writers know this. Historically EJB1.0 entity was pushed by IBM
> and it was mostly Relational->Web. Automated CMP was therefore not
> specified completely (dependencies, optimized queries etc etc). EJB 2.0
> under Linda DeMichiel et al addreses this, EJB2.0 is clearly geared at
> making (at least in the persistence section) the "real CMP" work
> fast and in
> a standard way.
>
> regards
>
> marc
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Greg Pierce
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 3:02 PM
> > To: 'jBoss'
> > Subject: RE: [jBoss-User] Case studies
> >
> >
> > I've been working on this project, and its cool and stuff :) Nah,
> > seriously
> > though I have been coming to terms with CMP and dealing with O/R
> > issues that
> > continue to be the bain of my Java programming experience. Moving
> > hierarchies of objects or 1-N relationships onto EJB is pure
> > torture in many
> > cases. That's the part that I can't stand and the source of my
> > only negative
> > experience with EJB... the designers of EJB were too database
> > focussed in my
> > mind :)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: marc fleury [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 5:30 PM
> > To: jBoss
> > Subject: RE: [jBoss-User] Case studies
> >
> >
> > but before we go there, please let's keep this thread on
> feedback i think
> > this is TRULY very valuable.
> >
> > I can't believe there were no negative experiences? come on!
> >
> > marc
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Kenneth Topp
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 1:57 PM
> > > To: jBoss
> > > Subject: RE: [jBoss-User] Case studies
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Isn't the database the perfect place for a j2ee container?
> That was my
> > > impression, just starting to work with it. When the books cover the
> > > latest standard, the software supports the latest minus one,
> and people
> > > are deploying latest minus two, I understand when people have
> > issues with
> > > j2ee (ejb in particular). If it moves that fast, it needed to,
> > no? That
> > > is why I discount people saying it _the_ thing. That being said, I do
> > > think it's the right direction (i'm not a naysayer ;).
> > >
> > > In particular, I've heard much about bmp vs cmp, and that no
> > one is doing
> > > cmp right. I haven't done much with ejb, except try to
> > understand it, but
> > > am interested in peoples perspective (how persistence will work
> > best, and
> > > where the container will end up).
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Kenneth Topp
> > >
> > > On Tue, 8 Aug 2000, Greg Pierce wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jeremy I'm not sure how much you've looked around, but you may
> > > want to look
> > > > at Orion if you're looking for something thats more affordable
> > > and is more
> > > > featured as a commercial product. I cringe at the idea of using
> > > a databases
> > > > vendors internally developed appserver - I've been fighting
> > > this on my end
> > > > on a project I'm interested in. Sure its nice to say 'well
> > the database
> > > > supports that', but just as with anything else once you go down
> > > that dark
> > > > road there is usually no coming back from the embedding of LOTS of
> > > > proprietary code into your system. I think Oracle makes a good
> > > database, but
> > > > their tools and support systems are of the devil :)
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Jeremy Clymer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 2:51 PM
> > > > To: jBoss
> > > > Subject: RE: [jBoss-User] Case studies
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Come on! I need "real life" we have so much IT people on
> > the list with
> > > > > ongoing projects. Can we hear your failures and your successes?
> > > >
> > > > In my department, we have been using Oracle 8i's JServer
> for EJBs with
> > > > terrible results. They force you to use too much proprietary
> > > code and its
> > > > not easy to develop on. We chase obscure errors and need to
> > spend time
> > > > working around different oracle problems that come up. I
> love their
> > > > database, but they are so far off the original intention of the
> > > EJB spec.
> > > >
> > > > Thats why I've been looking into JBoss. A free app server
> > > thats written to
> > > > the latest spec. The only problem that I have with JBoss is
> > > that it won't
> > > > be complete in time for my applications to go live.
> Therefore I have
> > > > recommended that we go with Weblogic. It comes with its own
> > > problems, such
> > > > as high cost, but the fact that it is proven in the industry
> > to provide
> > > > scalable solutions to large projects gives the project managers the
> > > > confidence they need.
> > > >
> > > > JBoss on the other hand is not yet a complete solution. I'm
> > > sure that when
> > > > it is done, it will compete with the best app servers on the
> > > market. But
> > > > for my needs, its development won't be complete in time.
> > > >
> > > > Jeremy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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