On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 1:47 PM, N David Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thanks for the elucidation, Bob. I'm not so familiar with the code base.
>
> I'm unaware what you did with ChemDoodle and why. You've said in this last
> email and the original of the chain that the idea is to have a lightweight
> applet. But what's the *purpose*? Simply that, for a quick glance at
> simple molecules, this would be a quicker process due to a smaller applet
> size and less class loading?
If so, is this for mobile /touch devices in particular? It seems to be
> quite an ugly bolt-on for a difference of 100-500k which, considering
> today's average internet connection speed, is insignificant (in my humble
> opinion).
>
> Presumably the feature is planned as opt-in, i.e. by default it's disabled?
>
OK, it's a very clear purpose: Yes, mobile devices primarily,, maybe iPads.
Totally opt-in. The page developer would want this specifically because it
would be simple, quick, and minimal. The goal is to have a very
fast-loading but minimal-functionality option, but still not just an image.
I don't want to spend a lot of time on this, but if it's possible, that
would be useful in certain applications where either (a) one only wants a
very low-budget model or (b) that would be good for starting, and then, say
you want a mep surface as well, then that will require some additional
components and a switch to full-blown JSmol. Something like Wikipedia, for
example, or a database such as PubChem or ChemSpider.
The advantage of incorporating this into JSmol is that it would allow the
page developer to tailor a page to a device better and also provide future
flexibility for additional features (particularly surfaces, I think) if
that were desired.
Bob
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 21 March 2013 17:20, Robert Hanson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> JSmol is already highly modular, with a lot of reflection, and only the
>> critical methods and classes are included in the 1.7 MB core.z.js file.
>> That, for example, includes no scripting, no surfaces, no menus, no
>> console, no states, no images, no surfaces, no special shapes, almost no
>> file readers. Much of it is Java itself, but even that is only the Java
>> classes that are needed. I might be able to carve off more -- going down
>> the list of what's in core.z.js, I see some opportunities. But getting that
>> to, say, 200K, that would be almost impossible. Viewer definitely would
>> need to be subclassed in that way, and that might help. So that's a good
>> idea.
>>
>> The idea of the super-light version would be truly a twirly small
>> molecule only -- just that. Along the lines of what ChemDoodle can do. So
>> I'm thinking that not even have it be Jmol. I started working a bit with
>> TwirlyMol, and it looks like that's the right idea, but I haven't got it
>> finished yet. Just very very light.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 4:10 AM, Simone Sturniolo <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> This idea picks my interest, though for my application I'd like
>>> something slightly more functional (with capabilities to draw solids, lines
>>> and text, beyond the simple molecular plotting).
>>> A question: is it possible that such a JSMol "lite" version would also
>>> render faster? Or should we expect more or less the same kind of speeds?
>>>
>>> Simone
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/3/21 N David Brown <[email protected]>
>>>
>>>> Isn't it more likely that if a user has a minimum footprint
>>>> requirement, they will adhere to TwirlyMol or an alternative rather than
>>>> desire that Jmol load later?
>>>>
>>>> Regardless, I like your "slice" idea personally. Better to spend time
>>>> developing a staged loading process for Jmol than effectively introduce a
>>>> dependency on an external project whose future is uncertain.
>>>>
>>>> There are a few ways you could approach this. One idea is to split core
>>>> classes into base and non-base versions, e.g. Viewer has core
>>>> functionality moved to a new class BaseViewer which Viewer extends to
>>>> provide the entire feature set.
>>>>
>>>> You could then use the Reflection API to reload all Base* classes as
>>>> their subtypes at a time of the user's choosing.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On 20 March 2013 21:50, Robert Hanson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Jmol users,
>>>>>
>>>>> An idea is being considered to have a very light-weight "starter"
>>>>> model for small molecules in the JSmol suite that is not derived from Jmol
>>>>> but is instead from some other package. Kind of like what we were doing
>>>>> with ChemDoodle, but not having the licensing issues that come with that.
>>>>> Java-based classes would not be involved until some later option was
>>>>> chosen
>>>>> by the page visitor.
>>>>>
>>>>> Suggestions? What's around now that is light-weight and doesn't
>>>>> require anything special (no WebGL)?
>>>>>
>>>>> This can be VERY simple. Just balls and sticks, for example. 100-200K
>>>>> max. Maybe just a couple of file formats, like MOL and XYZ.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another possibility would be to slice off the absolute minimum of Jmol
>>>>> to just handle balls and sticks. I wonder how many bytes that would
>>>>> require...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Robert M. Hanson
>>>>> Larson-Anderson Professor of Chemistry
>>>>> Chair, Chemistry Department
>>>>> St. Olaf College
>>>>> Northfield, MN
>>>>> http://www.stolaf.edu/people/hansonr
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If nature does not answer first what we want,
>>>>> it is better to take what answer we get.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Josiah Willard Gibbs, Lecture XXX, Monday, February 5, 1900
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> _______________
>>>
>>> Nuovo indirizzo e-mail:
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Robert M. Hanson
>> Larson-Anderson Professor of Chemistry
>> Chair, Chemistry Department
>> St. Olaf College
>> Northfield, MN
>> http://www.stolaf.edu/people/hansonr
>>
>>
>> If nature does not answer first what we want,
>> it is better to take what answer we get.
>>
>> -- Josiah Willard Gibbs, Lecture XXX, Monday, February 5, 1900
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
>> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
>> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_mar
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
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>
--
Robert M. Hanson
Larson-Anderson Professor of Chemistry
Chair, Chemistry Department
St. Olaf College
Northfield, MN
http://www.stolaf.edu/people/hansonr
If nature does not answer first what we want,
it is better to take what answer we get.
-- Josiah Willard Gibbs, Lecture XXX, Monday, February 5, 1900
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