What you've said makes sense. I can understand your motivation now you've
confirmed it's primarily for mobile/touch devices.
Thanks for the additional info, Bob.
Dave
On 21 March 2013 19:44, Robert Hanson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 1:47 PM, N David Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the elucidation, Bob. I'm not so familiar with the code base.
>>
>> I'm unaware what you did with ChemDoodle and why. You've said in this
>> last email and the original of the chain that the idea is to have a
>> lightweight applet. But what's the *purpose*? Simply that, for a quick
>> glance at simple molecules, this would be a quicker process due to a
>> smaller applet size and less class loading?
>
>
>
> If so, is this for mobile /touch devices in particular? It seems to be
>> quite an ugly bolt-on for a difference of 100-500k which, considering
>> today's average internet connection speed, is insignificant (in my humble
>> opinion).
>>
>> Presumably the feature is planned as opt-in, i.e. by default it's
>> disabled?
>>
>
> OK, it's a very clear purpose: Yes, mobile devices primarily,, maybe
> iPads. Totally opt-in. The page developer would want this specifically
> because it would be simple, quick, and minimal. The goal is to have a very
> fast-loading but minimal-functionality option, but still not just an image.
> I don't want to spend a lot of time on this, but if it's possible, that
> would be useful in certain applications where either (a) one only wants a
> very low-budget model or (b) that would be good for starting, and then, say
> you want a mep surface as well, then that will require some additional
> components and a switch to full-blown JSmol. Something like Wikipedia, for
> example, or a database such as PubChem or ChemSpider.
>
> The advantage of incorporating this into JSmol is that it would allow the
> page developer to tailor a page to a device better and also provide future
> flexibility for additional features (particularly surfaces, I think) if
> that were desired.
>
> Bob
>
>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> On 21 March 2013 17:20, Robert Hanson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> JSmol is already highly modular, with a lot of reflection, and only the
>>> critical methods and classes are included in the 1.7 MB core.z.js file.
>>> That, for example, includes no scripting, no surfaces, no menus, no
>>> console, no states, no images, no surfaces, no special shapes, almost no
>>> file readers. Much of it is Java itself, but even that is only the Java
>>> classes that are needed. I might be able to carve off more -- going down
>>> the list of what's in core.z.js, I see some opportunities. But getting that
>>> to, say, 200K, that would be almost impossible. Viewer definitely would
>>> need to be subclassed in that way, and that might help. So that's a good
>>> idea.
>>>
>>> The idea of the super-light version would be truly a twirly small
>>> molecule only -- just that. Along the lines of what ChemDoodle can do. So
>>> I'm thinking that not even have it be Jmol. I started working a bit with
>>> TwirlyMol, and it looks like that's the right idea, but I haven't got it
>>> finished yet. Just very very light.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 4:10 AM, Simone Sturniolo <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This idea picks my interest, though for my application I'd like
>>>> something slightly more functional (with capabilities to draw solids, lines
>>>> and text, beyond the simple molecular plotting).
>>>> A question: is it possible that such a JSMol "lite" version would also
>>>> render faster? Or should we expect more or less the same kind of speeds?
>>>>
>>>> Simone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/3/21 N David Brown <[email protected]>
>>>>
>>>>> Isn't it more likely that if a user has a minimum footprint
>>>>> requirement, they will adhere to TwirlyMol or an alternative rather than
>>>>> desire that Jmol load later?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regardless, I like your "slice" idea personally. Better to spend time
>>>>> developing a staged loading process for Jmol than effectively introduce a
>>>>> dependency on an external project whose future is uncertain.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are a few ways you could approach this. One idea is to split
>>>>> core classes into base and non-base versions, e.g. Viewer has core
>>>>> functionality moved to a new class BaseViewer which Viewer extends to
>>>>> provide the entire feature set.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could then use the Reflection API to reload all Base* classes as
>>>>> their subtypes at a time of the user's choosing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> On 20 March 2013 21:50, Robert Hanson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Jmol users,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An idea is being considered to have a very light-weight "starter"
>>>>>> model for small molecules in the JSmol suite that is not derived from
>>>>>> Jmol
>>>>>> but is instead from some other package. Kind of like what we were doing
>>>>>> with ChemDoodle, but not having the licensing issues that come with that.
>>>>>> Java-based classes would not be involved until some later option was
>>>>>> chosen
>>>>>> by the page visitor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Suggestions? What's around now that is light-weight and doesn't
>>>>>> require anything special (no WebGL)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This can be VERY simple. Just balls and sticks, for example. 100-200K
>>>>>> max. Maybe just a couple of file formats, like MOL and XYZ.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another possibility would be to slice off the absolute minimum of
>>>>>> Jmol to just handle balls and sticks. I wonder how many bytes that would
>>>>>> require...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Robert M. Hanson
>>>>>> Larson-Anderson Professor of Chemistry
>>>>>> Chair, Chemistry Department
>>>>>> St. Olaf College
>>>>>> Northfield, MN
>>>>>> http://www.stolaf.edu/people/hansonr
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If nature does not answer first what we want,
>>>>>> it is better to take what answer we get.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Josiah Willard Gibbs, Lecture XXX, Monday, February 5, 1900
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
>>>>>> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
>>>>>> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_mar
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Jmol-users mailing list
>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jmol-users
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
>>>>> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
>>>>> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_mar
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Jmol-users mailing list
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jmol-users
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> _______________
>>>>
>>>> Nuovo indirizzo e-mail:
>>>> [email protected]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
>>>> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
>>>> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_mar
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Jmol-users mailing list
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jmol-users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Robert M. Hanson
>>> Larson-Anderson Professor of Chemistry
>>> Chair, Chemistry Department
>>> St. Olaf College
>>> Northfield, MN
>>> http://www.stolaf.edu/people/hansonr
>>>
>>>
>>> If nature does not answer first what we want,
>>> it is better to take what answer we get.
>>>
>>> -- Josiah Willard Gibbs, Lecture XXX, Monday, February 5, 1900
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
>>> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
>>> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_mar
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Jmol-users mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jmol-users
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
>> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
>> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_mar
>> _______________________________________________
>> Jmol-users mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jmol-users
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Robert M. Hanson
> Larson-Anderson Professor of Chemistry
> Chair, Chemistry Department
> St. Olaf College
> Northfield, MN
> http://www.stolaf.edu/people/hansonr
>
>
> If nature does not answer first what we want,
> it is better to take what answer we get.
>
> -- Josiah Willard Gibbs, Lecture XXX, Monday, February 5, 1900
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_mar
_______________________________________________
Jmol-users mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jmol-users
