Your proposal is really good Tom. I think we're on the right track with this and we should be able to hammer out the details.

As for the VUMeter which monitors the microphone volume, this is different than the VUMeter in the mixer view right now. The one we have implemented right now shows the *output* volume, and therefore is only active when the audio is playing.

I am fairly certain that with standard alsa you cannot monitor the volume of the microphone without recording it, so having a VUMeter monitoring the input would block any other programs from using the microphone.

PulseAudio solves this problem by automatically copying the microphone data to any program that requests it. But to enable this we would have to support querying the available input devices from pulseaudio, and using pulsesrc (a feature we were planning to support anyway).

For now you can assume that this will work as long as you are using the default device. People with multiple inputs should have a more complicated setup anyway. If you want to try this out at home you can run two instances of the command:
gst-launch-0.10 alsasrc device=default ! fakesink

Two can run at the same time on my computer, but if I change device to hw:0, it complains that another application is using the device.


Tom Halligan wrote:
Hi Knut,

I agree completely with the volume control as a necessity,
particularly if Jokosher is to be considered the user-friendly audio
editor of choice. Right now I'm kind of leaning towards an
'all-in-one' solution:

1: Recording monitor when the instrument is armed for recording -
preferably with an input volume control if possible.
2: Volume control when instrument is not armed for recording - this
could also be a peak monitor: even if the track is recorded without
peaking, further manipulation may cause peaks.
3: When not armed for recording, it would make sense for the volume
control to incorporate the mute function - say, by right-clicking.

If we included all 3 points, we could get rid of the mute button
itself, and use the freed-up space to have a slightly larger vumeter
on the right hand side of the instrument viewer, which I think would
be the best solution.

On 6/25/08, Knut Erik Teigen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I was the one submitting that patch. I haven't really participated
afterward, work on my
PhD thesis has consumed all my time, unfortunately. But I try to follow the
progress, and
hope to contribute more when the dust settles.

I really like the idea of having a VUWidget in the instrument view as well.
Also, I believe pop-up buttons generally are a bad solution. Changing the
volume is something
you do very often when recording, so it should be instantly accessible.

Knut Erik Teigen

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Tom Halligan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I do like the mockup - maybe a little polish would be needed, but it
does the job. I don't really like the way it looks as if it's just
drawn on top of the InstrumentViewer, rather than an actual feature of
it, but that's just nit-picking.

I found this:

Did you ever get a response? I'm not that up to date on gstreamer
itself so I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for there - but since
Jokosher has a VUWidget anyway, am I right in assuming that the
problem is fixed? If so, we could just go ahead and try that patch,
maybe with a few alterations here and there (say, to include input
volume control, and track volume control when not armed to record?) -
see if people like it or not.

On 6/25/08, Laszlo Pandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Tom Halligan wrote:

Maybe the easiest solution would be to use a small, horizontal VUWidget
rather than the current volume slider? Although this doesn't solve the
space issue - it would at least be more intuitive as a volume control,
and also doubles up as a level monitor. The mute functionality could be
incorporated into this, so then we'd just have three buttons to deal
See this bug from a *really long* time ago:

And the screenshot accompanying it:

Another option, although a lot more work than the above, would be to
implement a rotating 'dial' widget (like those used in FruityLoops, for
example). This would look out of place with Jokosher, though - and I
don't think many people honestly like these things anyway, so probably
best to avoid it.

This is explicitly prohibited by the Jokosher way, as originally defined
by Jono when he wrote about the stupidity and unusability of audio
editors which try to be familiar by copying the mixer desk controls.
They fail miserably because mixing desks were not meant for mouse

The prime example of this is the rotating dial because it is really easy
  to control with your fingers when you have grasp and tactile feedback,
but it is absolutely impossible to use when a mouse pointer.

I do think a sliding control is still the best option, but I guess to
some, the horizontal slider would remind them of a pan control.
the slider's 'groove' (Or whatever you want to call it) does become
shaded to the left of the slider handle, which does suggest some kind
'increase' as we move towards the right, rather than just a left vs
right balance. Perhaps if we could make it more obvious that it was a
volume control somehow - although I don't think the confusion between
volume and pan would be anything serious, even for people used to such
thing. A fixed, vertical slider could be the easiest way around the
space issue, although this obviously means something else would have to
be compromised.


    From: "Jeff Ratliff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
    Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:33:07 -0400
    Subject: Re: [jokosher-devel] [PATCH] InstrumentViewer volume
    patch (SVN Rev. 1519)
    Sorry, don't think I sent this to the list:

    The volume slider in this position makes the think of a pan
    not a volume control. This comes from my experience with physical
    sound boards though, and a novice may not have this problem.

    You could do a volume icon that pops up a volume slider, a la
    rhythmbox and others. If you were really clever, you could find a
    to integrate it with the mute button and take up no additional
    This is less discoverable though, and would really rely on a good
    descriptive icon, or a little mini popup arrow thingy (excuse my
    advanced technical jargon). :)


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