kakki wrote: > > I sometimes wonder if you actually read my posts or just peruse them to see > what you can belabor against me, Debra.
That's a surprising "wondering". I think my recent responses are the first time I've said anything directly about any of your messages, so I don't know where you get the idea that I wish to "belabor" anything against you. Not so. I am, however, able to remember whatever anyone's said if it strikes me as a pattern, or conversely, is completely out of character. And I think Patrick has a valid point. And the many people here who keep saying some version of "disagreeing with what the government is doing is not being unpatriotic or anti-American" have a valid point also. Why do you think that's said here so often? Maybe not just because of your posts, but yours do add to that feeling that it's wrong to criticize the US government. Bush and his handpicked Congressional members were extremely successful in the last election by expressing that very same attitude. It's not surprising to see it here. Now that it's being openly discussed, perhaps it will not be taken so seriously next time it shows up on the list, or can be discussed specifically rather than in this general way, which is always difficult. > And this is where I have come to think there is a fundamental difference > between some of the left and those on the right. My ideologies do not > control my every move every waking minute. Yes, this is a fundamental difference in the way we see things. To me, one's politics come from the inside, from one's deep-seated core beliefs. Since those beliefs are not easily changed (although they can and I'd hope for every thinking person, do, evolve), it makes sense to me that one's politics do not easily change either. I don't see that as a characteristic of left-wing thinking. Bush's actions flow from his core beliefs, and those beliefs probably have not changed very much during his life, and I don't get the impression he questions them much now (which is perhaps part of his appeal for some people). Other people, and I'm speaking generally here, see politics as something like a coat you put on, different day, different coat, it doesn't really matter since "all politicians are saying the same thing anyway", so just vote for whoever seems like the nicest guy. What's important is just to get along, not work through differences because we're not even going to bother recognizing those, and we'll just aim for (superficially) getting along. It's that attitude, and ignorance and laziness, from my point of view, that has resulted in Bush being president. He blurred the genuine philosophical differences between the parties (and since he's extremely conservative those differences were much wider than in some other elections), acted like Mr. Moderate and promising he'd work with both sides of the aisle, and claimed he really just wants to help everybody. That got him a lot of votes. Now that he's in, the only people he really wants to help are other conservatives. Forget about his words, it's his actions that tell the tale. It makes me furious that we are stuck with him as president because so many people didn't mind being "dumbed down." And, of course, if I was a conservative I wouldn't mind that at all, if I could even recognize there had been a "dumbing down." (And, no, Kakki, that is not a comment about you. I'm speaking generally.) > I have also noticed a big difference in the way people from > different political parties interact with each other in Southern California > vs. the Northeast. My experience in Cal. is that people (moreso Native > Californians) are pretty laid back about it all. They don't get so agitated > about the differences and would never say "I will no longer have friends who > are not of the same belief as me." But I have to say that the people from > the Northeast seem to be much more adamant in their politics. Yes, I agree with that general observation. People who've lived in California and returned to New York tell me that people here tend to read more and be more intellectual. One friend who'd spent five years in LA said he was so glad he could have in-depth conversations again, with almost anyone, because people here are more aware of and interested in what's going on in the world, and that includes politics. (Obviously, Kakki, he never ran into you.) The difference in the weather probably causes some of that difference in attitude. If it was mild and sunny year-round as it is in California and people could go outside anytime and be active, it's less likely people would be indoors, reading, pondering or discussing things heatedly, as people in New York tend to do. And in the whole Northeast there's a long-standing tradition of the importance of politics, so yes people here can have very strong feelings about them. > True conservatives are all for as > little authority from the state as possible and I've also observed them to > be much more highly critical of their own than those on the left. I did mention that those were general observations and that there would be exceptions. In an earlier message, you said something about your opinions holding no value for me. That's not correct, and it's unfortunate if that's all I've shown. This will not replace the sting my earlier words may have had, but in addition to those I also want you to know this: I'm most impressed when you're writing about your personal experiences and are able look at those experiences in all different ways and come to, usually, very gentle conclusions. Your recent post about your encounters with different religions and your father's ranting and raving and yet still believing in the Church was one such post I greatly appreciated. I never got around to telling you that. And there have been many such personal observations from you over the years that I've appreciated and enjoyed reading, and wouldn't even consider disagreeing with. How could I? They are your truth. I think it's brave of you to share with us such close-to-the-heart information. Contrasted with that, though, when discussing world issues such as politics, we think so differently, Kakki, we'll probably always disagree, so 'nuff said by me about those areas for now. Debra Shea
