My thanks to everyone for their input, particularly the site listed below.
I will need to do some research, but CF may be a good "middle ground" for us
in future projects slated for 2003.  We currently have only 2 experienced
"low end" C++/Java developers (10+ years), and the rest have much less
experience/education (< 2 years).

Celeste  

-----Original Message-----
From: Drew Falkman [mailto:drew@;drewfalkman.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:41 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX/J2EE


I think what Matthew meant is that CF is built on top of JRun4 (which it
is) - but that is really under-the-hood type stuff (FYI: CFMX is actually a
J2EE app). In order to use CF on top of a full JRun you would need to get a
license of ColdFusion for J2EE. THey have CFMX modules for iPlanet, JRun and
WebSphere. More info: http://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/j2ee/

-drew

-----Original Message-----
From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:CHaseltine@;magticket.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 8:20 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX/J2EE


Matthew,

Did I understand your last statement correctly, that CF can now run on JRUN
4.0, without having to purchase the CF server?  I thought you needed both
servers.  This would be of great interest to me if my above statement is
correct, as the CF server can run upwards of $2500, where as JRUN 4.0 is now
$499.00 for the full upgrade (including EJB server).

If I understood you correctly, the business reasons for consider CF on the
front end are faster development time (for the front end), and lower costs
for the hiring of front end development staff.  One of my BIGGEST problems
is convincing the MBA types, who have NO understanding of the technical side
of a project, that taking an HTML coder who has little of no knowledge of
actual programming but is willing to work at $18.00/hr, and throwing him
into JSP development is often detrimental to the project's timeline and
overall cost long term, no matter what their initial data may show.  It
sounds like CF developers may have more experience in actual coding, and as
such, could make the transition to JSP development, or a combination of
JSP/CF front end development much easier.  And not blow the project timeline
or budget.

Thanks for your input!!  You've given me some things to think about and
research further.

Celeste
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Horn [mailto:mhorn@;macromedia.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:10 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX/J2EE


I don't use CF either, but I think I can answer some of your questions.

CF is a RAD environment including a nice administration console and a huge,
easy-to-use tag library. CF tags pre-date JSPs and tag libraries, and as a
result are more robust and fleshed out because they have been in development
for 7 years or so. In many people's opinions, the CF tag set is much simpler
to use than JSTL or any of the other tag libraries on J2EE. CF also has a
lot of other nice time-tested extras that you don't get from free-ware. The
emphasis is on making complex tasks easy to do in a short time.

Why is CF now on J2EE? Previous releases of CF ran only on a CF server and
were therefor limited to the platforms that CF supported. In addition, they
were not as extensible as other "open-standards" environments. The most
recent release of CF runs on the major J2EE servers (or as a standalone with
it's own server -- JRun). The server environment is as extensible as Java is
now; you can use all the J2EE goodies (like Struts, JSF, JDOM, ..., and are
not tied into a single vendor for the future.

I am sure there are others with more experience that can give you more
details.

-----Original Message-----
From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:CHaseltine@;magticket.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:31 AM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX/J2EE


Drew,

I'm not a CF developer, nor am I very familiar with CF, other than knowing
that it is a proprietary tag language based on Java/JSP/Servlets.  I'm a
J2EE/C++ developer and software architect.  But I am curious as to the
business reasons why I would want to develop an application using both CF
and J2EE, inclusive of EJB's.  Why not do the whole thing in J2EE using many
of the "free" tag libraries that are available?  I've seen more of this type
of approach being covered in discussion threads out on the web, but they are
technical discussions only.  Is there a business reason (i.e. cost savings
in development time/manpower/salary, savings in maintenance over life of
product, etc) for taking such an approach that you have seen/experienced?
As an architect, I have to take both the business and the technical reasons
into consideration when designing a new project and coming up with the
Project Schedule/budget/manpower forcasts.

Thanks in advance for any comments/past experiences that you can share.

Celeste Haseltine, PE
MTL, Inc
Dallas, TX


-----Original Message-----
From: Drew Falkman [mailto:drew@;drewfalkman.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:02 PM
To: JRun-Talk
Subject: CFMX/J2EE


Hey all-

I just wanted to let you all know that our new book on CFMX/J2EE integration
is out. It is part of Ben Forta's Reality ColdFusion series, so includes 5
different application and goes through the process of creating each -
allowing the reader to understand the process behind the application and why
we used J2EE where we did. Plus you get 5 fully functional apps: a portal,
CRM app, B2B exchange, e-commerce (with EJBs) and an XML content syndication
engine.

If you are interested go to http://www.forta.com/books/0321129482/ or
contact me directly.

Hope all is going well with everyone.

Thanks,

Drew Falkman
Veraison, LLC
http://www.drewfalkman.com






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