Hey, I've been using cf since CF2, I like CF! I also didn't say it was a
beginners tool,
("At the same time, "advanced" uses can still use LDAP, COM, java or Corba
from the cf language." ), I did say that beginners can pick it up quickly
.
I've also dealt with the language snobs who dismissed CF, as they typed line
after line of perl, piping to the mail server...LOL
Justin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Drew Falkman [mailto:drew@;drewfalkman.com]
> Sent: 07 November 2002 17:07
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: RE: CFMX/J2EE
>
>
> I would be careful in insinuating that CF is a beginner's tool, and would
> have to disagree that if you have a load of C++ and Java people you should
> ignore CF. There is a reason that over 75% of Fortune 100
> companies use CF.
> Yes it is DIFFERENT than oo languages, but saving a few characters i++ is
> hardly a concern when you save entire lines of code when writing an SQL
> query without having to write db connection scripts or other such tasks.
>
> Also, CFSCRIPT does allow for writing more complex scripting processing
> without tag-based syntax.
>
> Sorry if I seem a bit defensive, but it's a touchy issue for
> serious CFers.
> The simple fact that anyone can learn CF sometimes turns people away. But
> anyone can use Adobe Photoshop, too, but that doesn't mean they are good
> designers or really know what they are doing.
>
> -drew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Justin MacCarthy [mailto:macarthy@;iol.ie]
> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 8:41 AM
> To: JRun-Talk
> Subject: RE: CFMX/J2EE
>
>
> I agree with most of Matthews comments. One of the other reasons is
> historical. A lot of Web developers came from hacking HTML to building web
> apps. CFML (ColdFusion Markup language) was a easier jump than the
> alternatives like PERL, C or ASP (as you needed COM to do
> anything). It has
> a great deal of built-in functionality, a easy typeless language and is
> tagged based like HTML. This was great when you were trying to
> train HTMLers
> to something simple like send an email from a site. At the same time,
> "advanced" uses can still use LDAP, COM, java or Corba from the
> cf language.
> Even in version 2 of CF is was so much quicker to "DO SOMETHING"
> in CF than
> Perl etc..
>
> The current version of CF has new features that any oo developers will
> recognize, components, inheritance etc. It occupies a space somewhere
> between a scripting language and a programming language. This has it's
> advantages and disadvantages. OO developers might be frustrated by the
> missing OO features of CF (example: no overloading functions Ahhh!) and
> some of the language quirks (example: no i++, only i = i + 1; a IS b,
> instead of a == b or a===b etc.) But having said all that, some
> people never
> will get Java or C++, but I've never met ANYONE who couldn't
> understand the
> basics of CFML (Even my Dad :-) ). So the learning/ productivity / RAD
> nature of CF is a big bonus.
>
> As for your situation, if you have a load of C++ , java people in your
> organization, CFMX might not be of any use to you.
>
> Regards
> Justin
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matthew Horn [mailto:mhorn@;macromedia.com]
> > Sent: 07 November 2002 16:10
> > To: JRun-Talk
> > Subject: RE: CFMX/J2EE
> >
> >
> > I don't use CF either, but I think I can answer some of your questions.
> >
> > CF is a RAD environment including a nice administration console
> > and a huge, easy-to-use tag library. CF tags pre-date JSPs and
> > tag libraries, and as a result are more robust and fleshed out
> > because they have been in development for 7 years or so. In many
> > people's opinions, the CF tag set is much simpler to use than
> > JSTL or any of the other tag libraries on J2EE. CF also has a lot
> > of other nice time-tested extras that you don't get from
> > free-ware. The emphasis is on making complex tasks easy to do in
> > a short time.
> >
> > Why is CF now on J2EE? Previous releases of CF ran only on a CF
> > server and were therefor limited to the platforms that CF
> > supported. In addition, they were not as extensible as other
> > "open-standards" environments. The most recent release of CF runs
> > on the major J2EE servers (or as a standalone with it's own
> > server -- JRun). The server environment is as extensible as Java
> > is now; you can use all the J2EE goodies (like Struts, JSF, JDOM,
> > ..., and are not tied into a single vendor for the future.
> >
> > I am sure there are others with more experience that can give you
> > more details.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:CHaseltine@;magticket.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:31 AM
> > To: JRun-Talk
> > Subject: RE: CFMX/J2EE
> >
> >
> > Drew,
> >
> > I'm not a CF developer, nor am I very familiar with CF, other
> than knowing
> > that it is a proprietary tag language based on Java/JSP/Servlets. I'm a
> > J2EE/C++ developer and software architect. But I am curious as to the
> > business reasons why I would want to develop an application
> using both CF
> > and J2EE, inclusive of EJB's. Why not do the whole thing in J2EE
> > using many
> > of the "free" tag libraries that are available? I've seen more
> > of this type
> > of approach being covered in discussion threads out on the web,
> > but they are
> > technical discussions only. Is there a business reason (i.e.
> cost savings
> > in development time/manpower/salary, savings in maintenance over life of
> > product, etc) for taking such an approach that you have
> seen/experienced?
> > As an architect, I have to take both the business and the
> > technical reasons
> > into consideration when designing a new project and coming up with the
> > Project Schedule/budget/manpower forcasts.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any comments/past experiences that you can share.
> >
> > Celeste Haseltine, PE
> > MTL, Inc
> > Dallas, TX
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Drew Falkman [mailto:drew@;drewfalkman.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:02 PM
> > To: JRun-Talk
> > Subject: CFMX/J2EE
> >
> >
> > Hey all-
> >
> > I just wanted to let you all know that our new book on CFMX/J2EE
> > integration
> > is out. It is part of Ben Forta's Reality ColdFusion series, so
> includes 5
> > different application and goes through the process of creating each -
> > allowing the reader to understand the process behind the
> > application and why
> > we used J2EE where we did. Plus you get 5 fully functional
> apps: a portal,
> > CRM app, B2B exchange, e-commerce (with EJBs) and an XML content
> > syndication
> > engine.
> >
> > If you are interested go to http://www.forta.com/books/0321129482/ or
> > contact me directly.
> >
> > Hope all is going well with everyone.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Drew Falkman
> > Veraison, LLC
> > http://www.drewfalkman.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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