Hi, Also
Apache Aegis Apache Gaurdian Thanks, Moin On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Jeremy Haile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Adam, thanks for all of your thoughts. > > I particularly like these names you mentioned: > Apache Fortress > Apache Stronghold > Apache Shield > > Of course, we need to do some due diligence on these to determine how likely > they could be trademark issues with other security products. > > Jeremy > > On Dec 1, 2008, at 7:12 PM, Adam Taft wrote: > >> Hi Emmanuel, >> >> Thanks for the quick reply. I think it goes without saying that I'm naive >> about the Apache process, and obviously your history with them. >> >> Alcatraz has a very dark and negative connotation. The prison itself was >> not looked upon favorably in the eyes of many. It was an extremely >> controversial place, to say the least. I can't imagine the ASF would want a >> subproject with that name. >> >> I really like the idea of "Apache Security API." That really works >> because of the strong Apache brand prefix. org.apache.security for the >> package name, etc. It means what it says. Or, asa4j. >> >> Some other ideas: >> >> Apache Guard >> Apache Fortress >> Apache Frontline >> Apache Stonewall >> Apache Stronghold >> Apache Redoubt >> Apache Garrison >> Apache Shield >> >> Cheers, >> >> Adam Taft >> >> >> Emmanuel Lecharny wrote: >>> >>> adamtaft wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I'm not really a contributor to the JSecurity project yet (though I hope >>>> to >>>> be in the future). However, this thread has caught my attention, and so >>>> I >>>> thought I'd give a couple of thoughts. >>>> >>> thanks for the detailed mail ! >>>> >>>> I have an interest, call it a hobby, in name related issues for software >>>> projects, open source included. So, though I don't speak from any >>>> official >>>> background (I guess beyond a little professional), I would like to point >>>> out >>>> a few things about the name Alcatraz. >>>> >>>> First, as I believe has been mentioned, the term Alcatraz has been >>>> associated with other software products already. So, this is bad news >>>> with >>>> regards to trademark related issues. Just because its a geographic >>>> location >>>> doesn't mean that it can't be trademarked. Thus, likely these other >>>> software products are going to have problems with any related use of the >>>> term Alcatraz. >>>> >>> True. Java is also a geographical location, but I guarantee you you'll be >>> sued immediatly if you use it for a software name ... Now, is this the case >>> for Alcatraz? Might be... >>>> >>>> Second, the connotation for JSecurity implies that the product is used >>>> to >>>> keep people out of the protected system. This is what the term >>>> "security" >>>> implies, right? Alcatraz is a prison. It was NOT meant to keep people >>>> out, >>>> it was meant to keep people in. The use is only quasi-related, and even >>>> confusing, for a product with your feature set. Alcatraz software would >>>> be >>>> a better name for a product which keeps workstation/network users >>>> constrained in their internet use, like a firewall, or a web proxy, for >>>> example. Or a child internet monitoring product. >>>> >>> This is also something which came to my mind (I personally find Knox a >>> better fit), but it's not as important as to have a name which can be >>> recalled. >>>> >>>> Don't underestimate the importance of this point. The name of a >>>> software >>>> should ideally be somewhat self describing, especially when starting >>>> out. Until the name becomes a core brand, having a self describing name can >>>> make >>>> a big difference. >>>> >>> This is where it starts to be difficult :) The good point is that we are >>> encapsulated by the Apache brand, and one of the rule of thumb you can find >>> on the apache site is : "Consider using functional names, especially for >>> products of existing projects, e.g. for an "Apache Foo" project, the product >>> name "Apache Foo Pipelines". " >>> (http://www.apache.org/dev/project-names.html) >>> Something like Apache Security API for Java would be a perfect fit, >>> except that it's a pretty long name (unless we call it asa4j :) >>>> >>>> Third, I don't think you can underestimate how important it is that >>>> people >>>> can search the name of your product and find it through Google (and >>>> friends). Clearly the term Alcatraz has a huge number of unrelated >>>> hits, >>>> and you would clearly be lost any search engine placement with the name. >>>> Much better to have a name for your software that is the only known >>>> reference so that people can easily find you after having hear the name. >>>> This is why so many companies go crazy and conjure completely strange and >>>> nonsensical product names. >>>> >>> Apache related product are quickly highly ranked. >>>> >>>> <snip> >>>> Fifth, it seems like you're making preparations for something that you >>>> don't >>>> even know to be a problem. Yes, the Apache legal team should be >>>> consulted. However, it seems like jumping the gun to just start changing >>>> package names >>>> with anticipation of a name change. You would be crazy to start >>>> renaming >>>> packages based on some unknown possibility that it has to happen in the >>>> future. What value does this add to the software? >>>> >>> None, clearly, except that at some point, it should be done. >>>> >>>> Following the sigma-six and/or extreme programming world view, you >>>> shouldn't >>>> be making any change to your software until the change is actually >>>> required >>>> and value is added. Do you have a pending lawsuit? >>> >>> In any case, this is not something we should be waiting for. >>>> >>>> Has the Apache council >>>> suggested the change? >>> >>> Three of this project's mentors has suggested that the name should be >>> changed. I wish we are all wrong, but I'm afraid we are not ... >>>> >>>> Are you being blocked by the incubation process? Why >>>> even consider a change until it needs to be done. Energy could be >>>> better >>>> spent on other matters. >>>> >>> This is a part of the incubation process : >>> "Make sure that the requested project name does not already exist and >>> check www.nameprotect.com to be sure that the name is not already >>> trademarked for an existing software product." >>> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/jsecurity.html, in Project setup. >>>> >>>> <snip/> >>>> I think you all are better just letting this thing ride until something >>>> real >>>> convicting suggests you need a change. JSecurity is a great product >>>> name >>>> which you should stick with until otherwise needed. >>> >>> But sadly, even if it's a good name, we think it's already used, even if >>> it's not trademarked. ("Trademarks exist by virtue of use, not just >>> registration.") >>>> >>>> And, if that day comes, >>>> Alcatraz is just simply the wrong name, in my humble opinion, for all >>>> the >>>> reasons mentioned above. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>> Thanks ! > >
