I like the alphabetical ordering possibility of Aegis, but it seems there are a ton of other software-related systems with that name already. E.g. there is an aegis.sourceforge.net already :/
But I love the feedback! Keep it coming :) On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Moin Ayazifar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > Also > > Apache Aegis > Apache Gaurdian > > Thanks, > > Moin > > > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Jeremy Haile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Adam, thanks for all of your thoughts. >> >> I particularly like these names you mentioned: >> Apache Fortress >> Apache Stronghold >> Apache Shield >> >> Of course, we need to do some due diligence on these to determine how likely >> they could be trademark issues with other security products. >> >> Jeremy >> >> On Dec 1, 2008, at 7:12 PM, Adam Taft wrote: >> >>> Hi Emmanuel, >>> >>> Thanks for the quick reply. I think it goes without saying that I'm naive >>> about the Apache process, and obviously your history with them. >>> >>> Alcatraz has a very dark and negative connotation. The prison itself was >>> not looked upon favorably in the eyes of many. It was an extremely >>> controversial place, to say the least. I can't imagine the ASF would want a >>> subproject with that name. >>> >>> I really like the idea of "Apache Security API." That really works >>> because of the strong Apache brand prefix. org.apache.security for the >>> package name, etc. It means what it says. Or, asa4j. >>> >>> Some other ideas: >>> >>> Apache Guard >>> Apache Fortress >>> Apache Frontline >>> Apache Stonewall >>> Apache Stronghold >>> Apache Redoubt >>> Apache Garrison >>> Apache Shield >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Adam Taft >>> >>> >>> Emmanuel Lecharny wrote: >>>> >>>> adamtaft wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I'm not really a contributor to the JSecurity project yet (though I hope >>>>> to >>>>> be in the future). However, this thread has caught my attention, and so >>>>> I >>>>> thought I'd give a couple of thoughts. >>>>> >>>> thanks for the detailed mail ! >>>>> >>>>> I have an interest, call it a hobby, in name related issues for software >>>>> projects, open source included. So, though I don't speak from any >>>>> official >>>>> background (I guess beyond a little professional), I would like to point >>>>> out >>>>> a few things about the name Alcatraz. >>>>> >>>>> First, as I believe has been mentioned, the term Alcatraz has been >>>>> associated with other software products already. So, this is bad news >>>>> with >>>>> regards to trademark related issues. Just because its a geographic >>>>> location >>>>> doesn't mean that it can't be trademarked. Thus, likely these other >>>>> software products are going to have problems with any related use of the >>>>> term Alcatraz. >>>>> >>>> True. Java is also a geographical location, but I guarantee you you'll be >>>> sued immediatly if you use it for a software name ... Now, is this the case >>>> for Alcatraz? Might be... >>>>> >>>>> Second, the connotation for JSecurity implies that the product is used >>>>> to >>>>> keep people out of the protected system. This is what the term >>>>> "security" >>>>> implies, right? Alcatraz is a prison. It was NOT meant to keep people >>>>> out, >>>>> it was meant to keep people in. The use is only quasi-related, and even >>>>> confusing, for a product with your feature set. Alcatraz software would >>>>> be >>>>> a better name for a product which keeps workstation/network users >>>>> constrained in their internet use, like a firewall, or a web proxy, for >>>>> example. Or a child internet monitoring product. >>>>> >>>> This is also something which came to my mind (I personally find Knox a >>>> better fit), but it's not as important as to have a name which can be >>>> recalled. >>>>> >>>>> Don't underestimate the importance of this point. The name of a >>>>> software >>>>> should ideally be somewhat self describing, especially when starting >>>>> out. Until the name becomes a core brand, having a self describing name >>>>> can >>>>> make >>>>> a big difference. >>>>> >>>> This is where it starts to be difficult :) The good point is that we are >>>> encapsulated by the Apache brand, and one of the rule of thumb you can find >>>> on the apache site is : "Consider using functional names, especially for >>>> products of existing projects, e.g. for an "Apache Foo" project, the >>>> product >>>> name "Apache Foo Pipelines". " >>>> (http://www.apache.org/dev/project-names.html) >>>> Something like Apache Security API for Java would be a perfect fit, >>>> except that it's a pretty long name (unless we call it asa4j :) >>>>> >>>>> Third, I don't think you can underestimate how important it is that >>>>> people >>>>> can search the name of your product and find it through Google (and >>>>> friends). Clearly the term Alcatraz has a huge number of unrelated >>>>> hits, >>>>> and you would clearly be lost any search engine placement with the name. >>>>> Much better to have a name for your software that is the only known >>>>> reference so that people can easily find you after having hear the name. >>>>> This is why so many companies go crazy and conjure completely strange and >>>>> nonsensical product names. >>>>> >>>> Apache related product are quickly highly ranked. >>>>> >>>>> <snip> >>>>> Fifth, it seems like you're making preparations for something that you >>>>> don't >>>>> even know to be a problem. Yes, the Apache legal team should be >>>>> consulted. However, it seems like jumping the gun to just start changing >>>>> package names >>>>> with anticipation of a name change. You would be crazy to start >>>>> renaming >>>>> packages based on some unknown possibility that it has to happen in the >>>>> future. What value does this add to the software? >>>>> >>>> None, clearly, except that at some point, it should be done. >>>>> >>>>> Following the sigma-six and/or extreme programming world view, you >>>>> shouldn't >>>>> be making any change to your software until the change is actually >>>>> required >>>>> and value is added. Do you have a pending lawsuit? >>>> >>>> In any case, this is not something we should be waiting for. >>>>> >>>>> Has the Apache council >>>>> suggested the change? >>>> >>>> Three of this project's mentors has suggested that the name should be >>>> changed. I wish we are all wrong, but I'm afraid we are not ... >>>>> >>>>> Are you being blocked by the incubation process? Why >>>>> even consider a change until it needs to be done. Energy could be >>>>> better >>>>> spent on other matters. >>>>> >>>> This is a part of the incubation process : >>>> "Make sure that the requested project name does not already exist and >>>> check www.nameprotect.com to be sure that the name is not already >>>> trademarked for an existing software product." >>>> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/jsecurity.html, in Project setup. >>>>> >>>>> <snip/> >>>>> I think you all are better just letting this thing ride until something >>>>> real >>>>> convicting suggests you need a change. JSecurity is a great product >>>>> name >>>>> which you should stick with until otherwise needed. >>>> >>>> But sadly, even if it's a good name, we think it's already used, even if >>>> it's not trademarked. ("Trademarks exist by virtue of use, not just >>>> registration.") >>>>> >>>>> And, if that day comes, >>>>> Alcatraz is just simply the wrong name, in my humble opinion, for all >>>>> the >>>>> reasons mentioned above. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>> Thanks ! >> >> >
