Totally in agreement....unless you are savvy enough to modify the
server-side scripting macros to allow for your own code to be
inserted/generated, Ultradev4 is only a good prototype tool as far as JSP
development goes.
As far as HTML site building and DHTML/Javascript debugging, it is fantastic
though.
Note: 3rd party Ultradev "add-ons/behaviors" are coming.....be patient !!!
Even the good 3rd party books Ultradev 4 books have not yet left the print
shop....
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A mailing list about Java Server Pages specification and reference
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Hines, Bill
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 9:41 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Dreamweaver & JSP
>
>
> Martin,
>
> "Of course, your message implies you are a consultant, and you don't say
> anything about documentation or maintainability, so perhaps our goals are
> not quite the same."
>
> You also forgot the biggest benefit to "doing things right", as opposed to
> this Model 1/VB/RAD approach: code and pattern reuse. This, along with the
> two items you mention above, are things that clients who use consultants
> normally aren't savvy enough to realize they're missing, and how
> much money
> they're blowing by having the consultant come back in and re-develop the
> same cookie-cutter code over and over for each app, or to later try to
> extend or enhance a mish-mosh of spaghetti code that was "generated" by
> their productivity tool. There's a good balance though, we all know the
> answer to this argument in our heart when we put our zealousness aside.
> Sometimes I use WebSphere Studio to quickly bang out a prototype because
> it's wizards can get a database web app up and running quickly. But I'd
> never put that code into production because it is so tangled and
> does things
> like throws the ResultSet into the session for page navigation.
>
> Bill Hines
> Hershey Foods
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 2:00 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Dreamweaver & JSP
>
> > If you used vi "all" the time, your web site would look like
> sh....t.
>
> What a load of utter codswallop. That's like saying Dickens wrote garbage
> because he didn't use Microsoft Word. Or like saying that if
> someone writes
> in assembler all the time, they can't possibly write good applications.
> Tripe.
>
> > Those who criticize new tools like Dreamweaver are probably not
> even using
> a GUI based operating system.
>
> So, if I use a GUI based O/S, I have to love Dreamweaver, because
> it is the
> be-all and end-all, the absolute ultimate, the totally unreproachable,
> nirvana of web design tools, not even open to criticism. Wow,
> I've heard of
> zealots, but...
>
> > Time to market is everything. I can make $200,000 dollars in 6 weeks
> because my team uses rapid development tools like Dreamweaver
> Ultradev 4 and
> Forte for Java to design high quality web sites. But if you know your
> sh...t you don't have any thing to worry about the because your
> smart enough
> to use DOM and customize the interface for generating the code...
>
> Ah yes, the "time to market" argument. To refer to your own
> comment, "if you
> know your sh...t", who cares what tools you use? If I can write well
> designed, well implemented, well documented, maintainable sites
> just as fast
> using 'vi' as you can using your fancy tools, who cares what tools we use?
>
> Of course, your message implies you are a consultant, and you don't say
> anything about documentation or maintainability, so perhaps our goals are
> not quite the same.
>
> > It's just my opinion too, so take it with a grain of salt, but my bank
> accounts and happy clients sure says something else.
>
> Oh, I'll take a large grain of salt, thank you.
>
> > Dylan
>
> Martin.
>
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>
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Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
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http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=JSP
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