Again, I was not taking sides, just pointing out that the big guys pulling in a lot of money can provide some perks to draw support for their platforms. I was not attacking Jboss group. The big guys making the money included companies like Microsoft, etc. Don't take it personal.
So when did you start working for Jboss Group Andrew? David Jordan mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Object Identity, Inc. www.objectidentity.com > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew C. Oliver > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 7:28 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Juglist] rocket science > > > Phew, I thought I was traveling the country doing Jboss > training and getting > paid well to support those companies. > > So what have I been doing while I was under this delusion? > Just a guess, > but would you like to buy some Amway? ;-) > > Jboss Group has many very large clients. Have you heard of > GE? Have you > heard of Playboy.com? They buy training and support and consulting. > > We also have the better technology. I was initially > reluctant to join JBG > because as you know I actually hate EJBs*. I can't wait till > they're gone. > JBG does too. So while they develop their appserver, you'll > actually be > able to deploy PLAIN OLD JAVA OBJECTS (POJOs) and say > "persist this" "make > it transactional" "make it secure" and more. No more > nastiness. Let the > other vendors play with creating another abstraction above > the abstraction > and attaching the pretty GUI tools that make it LOOK easier. > We're actually > making it easier. > > Jboss is the only container that lets you pull out services > you don't need > and Jboss Group is the only vendor that encourages you to do so. > > I need to work on my "Why Professional Open Source is Better Than > Proprietary Software" presentation... Seems like some folks are still > suffering from FUDfluence ;-) Time to debunk. > > -Andy > > * I love persistence, transactions, security, etc. Don't > want to disturb > and JUG members or seem to contradict myself. I just hate the actual > complex interface to these services that is EJB. I want to > see EJB v 4.0 be > just plain old java objects. Same juicy appserver services > minus the gritty > excess fat. > > > On 7/17/03 6:21 PM, "David Jordan" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > And the bigger guy often wins the fight. > > (regardless of who has the superior technology) > > In this case, being bigger often means having more money > > and revenue providing you with the ability to provide support, > > consulting, etc. Developers like free software > > (as long as they still get paid for the code they write!). > > But being able to provide added value and services > > as a result of charging for your software does provide > > some advantages that will make you attractive, > > despite getting software for free. > > > > I am not arguing for one side or the other, > > just playing devils advocate in reaction to > > Andrew's comment. no flames please... > > > > David Jordan > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Object Identity, Inc. > > www.objectidentity.com > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew C. Oliver > >> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:11 PM > >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Subject: Re: [Juglist] rocket science > >> > >> > >> My financial analysts can beat up your financial analysts and my > >> benchmarkers can beat up your benchmarkers. > >> > >> ;-) > >> > >> On 7/17/03 4:40 PM, "Thomas L Roche" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >>> From a recent Merrill Lynch report on BEA: > >>> > >>>> In most companies the legions of Cobol, 4GL, VB developers, and > >>>> corporate developers significantly outnumber the hardcore Java > >>>> programming rocket scientists. > >>> > >>> (I'm holding out for "brain surgeon" :-) FWIW their analyst really > >>> likes WebLogic Workshop: > >>> > >>>> a tool that can drive widespread developer adoption, > >> becoming almost > >>>> like a fungus spreading throughout a company. > >>> > >>> but not JBoss: > >>> > >>>> We don't believe the hype when it comes to the potential > threat of > >>>> commoditization by an open source J2EE product such as the JBoss > >>>> group. Open source is interesting but its impact on the > application > >>>> infrastructure platform market is much smaller than most have > >>>> speculated. > >>> <snip> > >>>> We would agree that for some very basic development and testing > >>>> activities, an open source J2EE market will exist but it > >> will likely > >>>> not reach much more than mid single digit market penetration. > >>> <snip> > >>>> The JBoss group has done a tremendous job at garnering a lot of > >>>> attention around its "poaching" of BEA and IBM customers. > >> During our > >>>> field checks we have found many of those claims to be somewhat > >>>> exaggerated and the impact to be much smaller than hyped. We are > >>>> finding many examples where customers are migrating from JBoss to > >>>> BEA. The primary reason for these migrations are due to customers > >>>> outgrowing the JBoss capabilities and finding they need to take > >>>> advantage of services such as clustering, fail-over, and even the > >>>> portal and integration components. In many instances the > >> support and > >>>> maintainability issues are also becoming a problem. > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Juglist mailing list > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org > >> > >> -- > >> Andrew C. Oliver > >> http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp > >> Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI > >> > > http://jakarta.apache.org/poi > > For Java and Excel, Got POI? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Juglist mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Juglist mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org > > -- > Andrew C. Oliver > http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp > Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI > http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? _______________________________________________ Juglist mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org _______________________________________________ Juglist mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org
