On 7/17/03 8:01 PM, "David Jordan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Again, I was not taking sides, just pointing out > that the big guys pulling in a lot of money can > provide some perks to draw support for their platforms. > I was not attacking Jboss group. > The big guys making the money included companies > like Microsoft, etc. > Don't take it personal. > > So when did you start working for Jboss Group Andrew? Sometime after I met Marc Fleury at the JUG meeting last September. Its not like a normal company where one morning you can say "I don't work at Jboss" and the next morning you can say you do. Ironically I started POI when I wrote to the Jug list and met a different Marc. The moral: get involved in open source and go to JUG meetings. It pays well. -Andy > > David Jordan > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Object Identity, Inc. > www.objectidentity.com > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew C. Oliver >> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 7:28 PM >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: Re: [Juglist] rocket science >> >> >> Phew, I thought I was traveling the country doing Jboss >> training and getting >> paid well to support those companies. >> >> So what have I been doing while I was under this delusion? >> Just a guess, >> but would you like to buy some Amway? ;-) >> >> Jboss Group has many very large clients. Have you heard of >> GE? Have you >> heard of Playboy.com? They buy training and support and consulting. >> >> We also have the better technology. I was initially >> reluctant to join JBG >> because as you know I actually hate EJBs*. I can't wait till >> they're gone. >> JBG does too. So while they develop their appserver, you'll >> actually be >> able to deploy PLAIN OLD JAVA OBJECTS (POJOs) and say >> "persist this" "make >> it transactional" "make it secure" and more. No more >> nastiness. Let the >> other vendors play with creating another abstraction above >> the abstraction >> and attaching the pretty GUI tools that make it LOOK easier. >> We're actually >> making it easier. >> >> Jboss is the only container that lets you pull out services >> you don't need >> and Jboss Group is the only vendor that encourages you to do so. >> >> I need to work on my "Why Professional Open Source is Better Than >> Proprietary Software" presentation... Seems like some folks are still >> suffering from FUDfluence ;-) Time to debunk. >> >> -Andy >> >> * I love persistence, transactions, security, etc. Don't >> want to disturb >> and JUG members or seem to contradict myself. I just hate the actual >> complex interface to these services that is EJB. I want to >> see EJB v 4.0 be >> just plain old java objects. Same juicy appserver services >> minus the gritty >> excess fat. >> >> >> On 7/17/03 6:21 PM, "David Jordan" >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> >>> And the bigger guy often wins the fight. >>> (regardless of who has the superior technology) >>> In this case, being bigger often means having more money >>> and revenue providing you with the ability to provide support, >>> consulting, etc. Developers like free software >>> (as long as they still get paid for the code they write!). >>> But being able to provide added value and services >>> as a result of charging for your software does provide >>> some advantages that will make you attractive, >>> despite getting software for free. >>> >>> I am not arguing for one side or the other, >>> just playing devils advocate in reaction to >>> Andrew's comment. no flames please... >>> >>> David Jordan >>> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Object Identity, Inc. >>> www.objectidentity.com >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew C. Oliver >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 6:11 PM >>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> Subject: Re: [Juglist] rocket science >>>> >>>> >>>> My financial analysts can beat up your financial analysts and my >>>> benchmarkers can beat up your benchmarkers. >>>> >>>> ;-) >>>> >>>> On 7/17/03 4:40 PM, "Thomas L Roche" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From a recent Merrill Lynch report on BEA: >>>>> >>>>>> In most companies the legions of Cobol, 4GL, VB developers, and >>>>>> corporate developers significantly outnumber the hardcore Java >>>>>> programming rocket scientists. >>>>> >>>>> (I'm holding out for "brain surgeon" :-) FWIW their analyst really >>>>> likes WebLogic Workshop: >>>>> >>>>>> a tool that can drive widespread developer adoption, >>>> becoming almost >>>>>> like a fungus spreading throughout a company. >>>>> >>>>> but not JBoss: >>>>> >>>>>> We don't believe the hype when it comes to the potential >> threat of >>>>>> commoditization by an open source J2EE product such as the JBoss >>>>>> group. Open source is interesting but its impact on the >> application >>>>>> infrastructure platform market is much smaller than most have >>>>>> speculated. >>>>> <snip> >>>>>> We would agree that for some very basic development and testing >>>>>> activities, an open source J2EE market will exist but it >>>> will likely >>>>>> not reach much more than mid single digit market penetration. >>>>> <snip> >>>>>> The JBoss group has done a tremendous job at garnering a lot of >>>>>> attention around its "poaching" of BEA and IBM customers. >>>> During our >>>>>> field checks we have found many of those claims to be somewhat >>>>>> exaggerated and the impact to be much smaller than hyped. We are >>>>>> finding many examples where customers are migrating from JBoss to >>>>>> BEA. The primary reason for these migrations are due to customers >>>>>> outgrowing the JBoss capabilities and finding they need to take >>>>>> advantage of services such as clustering, fail-over, and even the >>>>>> portal and integration components. In many instances the >>>> support and >>>>>> maintainability issues are also becoming a problem. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Juglist mailing list >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Andrew C. Oliver >>>> http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp >>>> Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI >>>> >>> http://jakarta.apache.org/poi >>> For Java and Excel, Got POI? >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Juglist mailing list >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Juglist mailing list >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org >> >> -- >> Andrew C. Oliver >> http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp >> Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI >> > http://jakarta.apache.org/poi > For Java and Excel, Got POI? > > > _______________________________________________ > Juglist mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Juglist mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? _______________________________________________ Juglist mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://trijug.org/mailman/listinfo/juglist_trijug.org
