Sal,
Whoaaa! Whoaa! I don't agree with your assessment ... I know a couple
people with $70,000 MBAs who are unemployed
right now!! So after two grueling years at big name universities
(I will
not name) ... that degree is not worth $145 right now!!
[*JAVA(TM) - gratuitous use of the name Java to avoid flame war!!]
I am not disagreeing with John Luce's feedback!! What we are seeing
now is an aberration ... where qualified and skilled
people who have adequate education and training are not getting looked
at
by employers who are only interested in keeping the costs down and
going
with cheaper options. I think some companies/projects prefer
to do it the wrong
way two or three times before arriving at the final solution instead
of hiring
quality people up front and getting it right the first time around.
I don't think investors are that stupid (just bamboozled by glib tongued
false
prophets!!). The excuse commonly given is the project direction
was taken for
shareholder value and keeping costs down. Financial analysts
need
to study the financial costs of botched projects and mistakes caused
by
project mismanagement and the impact on the company bottom line.
This will set the record straight!!
Having said all that ... The technology field seems to be in a
tail spin right now but recovering.
There is a dangerous trend to undervalue (in price and importance
the need for qualified and experienced technologists -- but that is
a topic for another discussion or forum).
Often times we mistake name brand, glitz and glamor as being
the necessary ingredients to getting a quality education/training.
Someone had asked me the last time around if I thought such
symposiums/short training seminars are useful and worth it. I
am quite
sure the organizers do guarantee the level of quality offered.
What someone gets out of it, is all up to the individual.
If someone
clearly defines what they want to get out of it ... I am quite sure
$145 could be worth $70,000!!
The people with the MBAs believe they will land jobs based on where
they went to school
and who they know ... and not what they know!! Maybe that is
true for the
smoke and mirrors associated with the business field ... but not an
honest to
good technology field. If they assume that just sitting in the
class will get them a
job by automatic entitlement, I think they are barking up the wrong
tree in this
day and age.
In the context of this discussion and IMHO, getting a job is a matter
of using all
you education, skills and experiences. Skills and experiences
can be acquired without having to plunk down large amounts
of money for an education!!.
Some of the best professionals I have worked with, had a minimum
education (bachelors) and most of the actual skills came from self-learning.
There is a wealth of information and tools available at virtually no
real cost
and experience in those tools can help you land a pretty decent job.
The Triangle area user groups and SIGs (we have one in the JUG thanks
to the
efforts of Harold and others) do a very good job of helping new and
expert
users alike, stay abreast of the technologies and provide the direction
for
a lot of people. All this for very little or no cost at all.
Beyond that it is all personal initiative and hard work!!
[*JAVA(TM) - gratuitous use of the name Java again to avoid flame
war!!]
Conrad
Salvatore Mungal wrote:
So you want $145 to get get you professional training
and a job? What planet are you from?
John Luce wrote:
They didn't treat Java as 2nd class. But those of us with lots of
programming experience got NO response from employers after taking the
Intermediate Java class. So, why bother?
Of course, that also held true for SAS, C#,... etc.
It's only $145, but the classes have been worth $0 to almost all of us who
have been through TechEngage I and II...
Following up with Volunteer programming (when we could find it) hasn't
helped either...
Great premise, excellent courses in a short period of time, but getting us
in doors... no way.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Erik Hatcher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Research Triangle Java User's Group mailing list." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Juglist] TechEngage III
On Feb 26, 2004, at 11:04 PM, Don Brady wrote:
David M. Bloom wrote:
Why didn't they carry Java? Linux sounds good though.
They always treated Java as a second-class citizen. That being the
case, we may be better off without their touching Java.....
But what a friggin' bargain to have Stu and Ted Neward teach you Java
for a week for $145 (or whatever tiny amount it is).... wow!
Erik
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