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---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Adam Collard <adam.coll...@canonical.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 at 13:43
Subject: Re: A (Very) Minimal Charm
To: Marco Ceppi <marco.ce...@canonical.com>

On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 at 12:53 Marco Ceppi <marco.ce...@canonical.com> wrote:

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 5:00 AM Adam Collard <adam.coll...@canonical.com>

On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 at 04:02 Nate Finch <nate.fi...@canonical.com> wrote:

On IRC, someone was lamenting the fact that the Ubuntu charm takes longer
to deploy now, because it has been updated to exercise more of Juju's
features.  My response was - just make a minimal charm, it's easy.  And
then of course, I had to figure out how minimal you can get.  Here it is:

It's just a directory with a metadata.yaml in it with these contents:

name: min
summary: nope
description: nope
  - xenial

(obviously you can set the series to whatever you want)
No other files or directories are needed.

This is neat, but doesn't detract from the bloat in the ubuntu charm.

I'm happy to work though changes to the Ubuntu charm to decrease "bloat".


IMHO the bloat in the ubuntu charm isn't from support for Juju features,
but the switch to reactive plus conflicts in layer-base wanting to a)
support lots of toolchains to allow layers above it to be slimmer and b) be
a suitable base for "just deploy me" ubuntu.

But it is to support the reactive framework, where we utilize newer Juju
features, like status and application-version to make the charm rich
despite it's minimal goal set. Honestly, a handful of cached wheelhouses
and some apt packages don't strike me as bloat, but I do want to make sure
the Ubuntu charm works for those using it. So,

What's the real problem with the Ubuntu charm today?

It apt-get installs something
It pip installs something

Both of these take non-trivial amounts of time.

How does it not achieve it's goal of providing a relatively blank Ubuntu

It does, but an additional goal (IMO) is to do so quickly and with minimal
(zero?) network requirements.

What are people using the Ubuntu charm for?

Demonstrating/finding Juju bugs whilst ruling out lots of other potential
sources of confusion.

Other than demos, hacks/workarounds, and testing I'm not clear on the
purpose of an Ubuntu charm in a model serves.

Hope this sheds some light on what we were using the Ubuntu charm for.

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