On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 3:28 PM Albert Astals Cid <[email protected]> wrote:
> El dijous, 23 de juliol de 2020, a les 23:49:23 CEST, Valorie Zimmerman va > escriure: > > I had another thought hours after I sent my reply to Albert. What if we > > create a list for KDE listowners to which all listowners and mods are > > subscribed? That way we can approach issues as a team, share resources > and > > problems, ask one another for coverage during planned absences, etc. > > > > We had a list like this at Rootsweb, a free genealogy community, and it > > generally worked well. RW also used Mailman software before closing the > > lists recently. I've moved most of my former lists to Groups.io which is > a > > splendid platform. I very much wish it was Free software! > > > > It seems like a lits would be a more stable way to approach the issue > than > > an annual inquiry email. > > > > Thoughts? > > I think a listowners list may be interesting to explore, but i don't see > how it solves the "3 of the 4 list owners of okular-devel have gone away" > problem. > > We still need to ping them, don't we? > > Cheers, > Albert > True that. However at least we'll have all the listowners corralled, keeping in mind that KDE is a very polite and orderly anarchist collective. :-) I have listowner privileges on quite a few KDE lists where things I don't understand are being discussed. However, I can tell the difference between a serious email to a devel list and spam, and using the cli application "listadmin" I can sort the spam from the actual posts for lots of lists in very little time. So a few of us doing that will remove most of the burden from many others. If *all* of the listowners & mods are subbed to the new list, when they leave I can write to them and find out why, so we would not have to wait a year to put out the call for replacements. Valorie > Valorie > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 1:38 AM Ben Cooksley <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 4:55 PM Valorie Zimmerman > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 3:31 PM Albert Astals Cid <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Dear Community, > > > >> > > > >> One important part of mailing lists being healthy is > > > owners/moderators[1]. > > > >> > > > >> They moderate the lists, they help users that want to > > > subscribe/unsubscribe but don't know how to, they enact emergency > > > moderation in the very very seldom case that it is needed, etc. > > > >> > > > >> So to keep our mailing lists healthy we need to be sure to have > healthy > > > list owners. > > > >> > > > >> In plural, more than one, because from time to time, we go on > vacation > > > and the list duties still need taking care of. > > > >> > > > >> For that I'd like to enact this policy: > > > >> > > > >> Mailing lists should have at least 2 active owners, ideally 3 > > > [Obviously exceptions apply, like if we just started a mailing list to > > > coordinate translators for a language that has no translation in KDE > yet, > > > we'd probably have no way to get 2 list owners] > > > >> > > > >> One keyword in that sentence is "active". > > > >> > > > >> Mailing list ownership/moderation un-activity is hard to detect. > > > >> > > > >> One way to potentially detect it, is by those summaries that > sysadmin > > > sends periodically for lists with lots of mails to moderate, but that > > > doesn't cover all the cases. > > > >> > > > >> For example, it's possible that a mailing list has 2 owners and only > > > one of them is inactive, since the other one is keeping the list in > working > > > condition we don't see it as a problem, but if that person goes on > holiday, > > > then it suddenly is. > > > >> > > > >> For that I'd like to enact this policy sub-point: > > > >> > > > >> Mailing list owners will be contacted every year asking if they > are > > > still active and if they want to continue being list owner or if they'd > > > prefer we find a substitute. > > > >> > > > >> If they say "please find a substitute" or fail to answer in a given > > > time frame (I'd say a month is fair), they will be removed as owners > and in > > > case the "at least 2 active owners, ideally 3" policy is broken we'll > find > > > a new person. > > > >> > > > >> Does that sound something like we could agree on? > > > > > > > > > > > > I think this is a good idea. > > > > > > > >> Then the big question is "who will do this work?" Because it seems > > > quite a bit of work (albeit only once a year). I would suggest the > > > Community Working Group does this, as it's a way to keep our community > > > healthy, but i understand it's quite some work, so i volunteer to do > it if > > > the CWG doesn't feel this is a task they want to take on. > > > > > > > > > > > > As a member of CWG, I think that this is a suitable task for us, and > I'm > > > willing to do it. However, surely there is a master list of all the > lists > > > and who the stated owners and mods are. If so, can't the sending be > done > > > somewhat automatically? With the answers going to the CWG or whoever, > to > > > find replacement people. > > > > > > > > > > You'd need a way of catching the exceptions - the people who don't > reply > > > though. > > > Not sure how easy that would be to automate, but it's probably > possible. > > > > > > In terms of getting a list of all lists, we can provide one of those > > > (it's attached). I'm not sure if Mailman provides anything out of the > > > box that lists who the owners of a list are though. > > > > > > >> Things I'm missing? > > > > > > > > > > > > Healthy lists are somewhat active. While a major protective duty of > > > owners and mods is to keep spam out and keep conversations moving in a > > > positive way, another is to keep the list active by bringing to it > > > appropriate topics of discussion. I don't want that forgotten. Too > often > > > issues are discussed in IRC and never brought to the list where they > ought > > > to be. > > > > > > > >> Improvement suggestions? > > > >> > > > >> Cheers, > > > >> Albert > > > >> > > > >> [1] yes, i know they are not the same, but since one is a subset of > the > > > other, let's pretend they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to hear from Sysadmin how many lists we have and how > many > > > owners and if there is a way to automatically send an email to all > owners > > > along with the names of the lists they administer. > > > > > > > > Valorie > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Ben >
