That's how I see it. If I turn off the top copper layer and the footprints are linked to the layer then I want to turn off the footprint pads on that layer. The remaining footprint layers would still be visible (silk screen, solder, mask, etc.). Through hole layers may be tricking. I don't think we really have a concept of the top or bottom copper of a through hole layer.
On 02/18/2018 09:03 PM, Jon Evans wrote: > Those are interesting ideas. My reading is that Andrey and Wayne are > actually proposing two different "linking" modes: > > Andrey: linking Front and Back (i.e. checking Front pads also checks > Back pads) > Wayne: linking copper and render (i.e. checking F.Cu also checks Front pads) > > Am I right about your suggestion, Wayne? > > I think from my personal perspective as a user, I would expect by > default Wayne's link to be on and Andrey's to be off. > That is, by default if I turn off F.Cu I expect Front Pads to go away > too, but there might be edge cases where I want to turn on F.Cu and turn > off F.Pads or vice versa. > > -Jon > > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Wayne, > Yep, that's what I meant, kind of like the Photoshop linked layers. > > I should have added that the link is only between two of the same > checkboxes that are front and bottom. Ie Front/Bottom Pads would > have linkage, a different linkage would be between F/B Text, and > another for etc... > > Please don't link multiple text/pads/vias/footprints together. I > think linking should only be between Front and Bottom of the same > item type. Maybe add a tiny horizontal separator between the pairs > of Front and Bottom rows: ie > Front Pads > Bottom Pads > ----------------- > Front Text > Bottom Text > ----------------- > etc > > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 5:49 PM, Wayne Stambaugh > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > I was thinking the same thing but rather than locked, I was thinking > linked to the layer but the concept is the same. If they are > linked, > when the layer is turned off, so are the footprints on that > layer. When > they are unlinked, they are independent similar to the current > behavior. > I would default to linked since that is what most users would > expect. > > On 02/18/2018 08:42 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov wrote: > > Hi Jon, > > > > Make sure Andrews' patches are consistent with your commits, > essentially > > don't commit if it'll end up as a hodge podge of code that even > though > > it works is not coherent. > > > > I can see benefits to having control over showing front copper pads > but > > hiding bottom copper pads, so I would keep them separate. > > If it's an annoyance to toggle both front and bottom copper > checkboxes > > for pads, maybe a LOCK is warranted such that in a locked position, > a > > toggle checkbox in either, toggles both checkboxes for > front/bottom, and > > an unlocked state keeps them independent. > > > > Thanks > > > > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Jon Evans <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > > > > I'm going to go to the user forum with these questions too, but > > curious what the devs think about this: > > > > In my original RFC, I proposed eliminating the different between > > "front" and "back" in the Render checkboxes. > > I still think this makes sense for things like text and > footprints, > > but I'm having second thoughts about merging the "Pads Front" > and > > "Pads Back" > > Right now we have pads set to a different color than other > copper on > > the front and back copper layers. > > I guess some users probably like this and would get annoyed if > we > > removed the ability for pads to be a special color. > > Will they get annoyed if we force them to set both the front > and the > > back pads to the same color? > > > > (to be honest, I am used to EDA tools that by default treat > pads as > > part of the copper layer and show them in the same color, so I > don't > > care about this feature) > > > > -Jon > > > > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 7:09 PM, Jon Evans <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > > > > Thanks Wayne and Jeff (and yes there are a lot of edge cases > > here to sort out) > > > > Note that Andrzej Wolski already did propose some changes > > related to this that might be good to merge as a first step. > > I have only done limited testing on them so far but they do > work > > and resolve some of the problems: > > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1743890/comments/6 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1743890/comments/6> > > > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1743890/comments/6 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1743890/comments/6>> > > > https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg34009.html > <https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg34009.html> > > <https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg34009.html > <https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg34009.html>> > > > > -Jon > > > > On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:53 PM, Jeff Young <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > > > > Hi Jon, > > > > Sounds good to me too. A few edge-cases you might want > to > > watch out for: > > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1733894 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1733894> > > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1733894 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1733894>> > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1744521 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1744521> > > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1744521 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1744521>> > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1744730 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1744730> > > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1744730 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1744730>> > > > > Cheers, > > Jeff. > > > > > >> On 18 Feb 2018, at 22:36, Wayne Stambaugh > >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > >> > >> Hey Jon, > >> > >> I'm good with all of this. I would like to get this > >> cleaned up before the stable release if possible since > >> there are so many complaints and bug reports about it. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Wayne > >> > >> On 02/18/2018 03:00 PM, Jon Evans wrote: > >>> Hi all, > >>> Right now the behavior of the "Layer" and "Render" > tabs > >>> of the layers widget are confusing to users, > resulting in > >>> complaints on the forum and some bug reports: > >>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1748181 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1748181> > >>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1748181 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1748181>> > >>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1743890 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1743890> > >>> <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1743890 > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1743890>> > >>> I could take a crack at fixing this (before or > after 5.0 > >>> depending on what the complexity ends up being) but > >>> before I write any code I wanted to propose how > I think > >>> it should work. > >>> I think the visibility of any object should be > the AND of > >>> layer visibility and render visibility. > >>> To get there: > >>> 1) In the Render tab, get rid of the distinction > between > >>> front/back. For example "Pads Back" and "Pads Front" > >>> becomes just "Pads" > >>> 2) Change the visibility code so that an object is > >>> visible if (a) the associated Render setting is > turned on > >>> for the type of object, and (b) at least one of the > >>> layers the object is on is enabled in the Layers > tab. > >>> 3) (optionally) Rename "Render" to something more > >>> friendly like "Items" or "Item Types" to make it > more > >>> clear to the user that this is where they can > turn off > >>> the display of various types of items as opposed to > >>> various layerse > >>> If this plan is OK, I will start working out the > details > >>> of how to get there. Right now the Render tab is > >>> directly controlling the visibility of certain "GAL > >>> Layers" but unfortunately the set of objects > that appears > >>> on one GAL layer is not always equal to the set of > >>> objects that the user would expect to turn on > and off, as > >>> seen by the bug reports. So, there will have to > be some > >>> additional logic created to manage these > settings beyond > >>> just turning on and off layers in the GAL. > >>> -Jon > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Mailing list: > https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> > >>> Post to : > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > >>> <mailto:[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > >>> Unsubscribe : > https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> > >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > >>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> > >> Post to : [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > >> <mailto:[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > >> Unsubscribe : > https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> > >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > >> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> > > Post to : [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > Unsubscribe : > https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> > > Post to : [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>> > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future > > Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss > the > > future [JFK] > > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > Live Long and Prosper, > > Andrey > > > > > -- > Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future > Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss > the future [JFK] > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Live Long and Prosper, > Andrey > > _______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : [email protected] Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
